Code for the Protection of All Living Entities:

hmm, so far my vote is looking rather 'defining' up there!

Bo, I thought that such a code as you describe was already in place. It's just not implemented.

there may be a cursory copy of someone's 'human rights code' on the books; probably not ratified, or endorsed; but i am taking about an all inclusive code protecting the rights of all living matter on this planet!

[if it were worded in a specific way, and followed to the letter, the human species might have to stop eating entirely, and subsequently die out! ]

Umpf! that second vote sure took the wind out of my sails!

Bo, since I voted 'no' Letty must have voted yes, which doesn't surprise me since Letty is the sweet, warm person that I know and love.

I voted no because, although the idea is admirable, it is impossibly naieve to think such a movement could be implemented. It would compare to abortion rights against right to lifers: vegetarians against those of us who are omnivorous.

Nice idea, but until all nations can agree that preemptive war is illegal, I don't hold out much hope for an idealistic movement to gain any momentum.

While thinking about this topic, did you consider the possibility that this concept could be turned into a sort of religious war? So many good ideas seem to become buried under egotistic, political blather.

Bo, I didn't vote in your poll, because I find them to be often biased.

Well, Let's begin with the UN. It came about as an option to the League of Nations which Woodrow Wilson attempted to implement and for which he sacrificed so much to end the war with Germany. (Germany always asserted that they were defeated at the peace table, and not on the battlefield).

Of all things, it was the United States which sounded the death knell and I suspect, was an underlying cause of the illness of Wilson.

Today, the UN still does not have any teeth to assure that their policies will be followed.

I don't quite understand what you mean by the "not eating" response.

Ah, Diane, thank you my friend, but I have had enough experience with surveys and polls to know that the samplings are often skewed.

Perhaps Bo will explain what I obviously haven't gotten so far.

Yes, I think we should make a code regarding the rights of every living being in world. And it should go thusly: eat, or be eaten.

Diane;

Idealism should be recognized; long after the ideal is stated, it will be vetted, and that core of truth within it will surface.

Anything can become a 'banner' for religious war, as religion is simply the face of humanity's 'self hatred'; any excuse will do.

And, as for the voting, Letty, it seems most of those who vote no, do not have anything to say to support their position. I mention the U.N. only since it is currently the only figurative representative of panhumanity.
And my comment about eating refers to the parasitic nature of biology; we consume to survive - the seeds of carnage are inherent to survival.

That code, rufio, is already in place!

In other words, Bo, all creatures great and small are parasites, right?

I remember taking a biology quiz once. The question was: What is grazed but never sown? Hey, TO, this is just my way of saying that I don't have a clue about your thread.

I didn't vote because there was no category for "Yes, except for Bo because he forgot my birthday".

Other than that, my choice would be "Eat, and pay me," which brings me to an actual point.

High-end chefs and local, organic farmers share something in common: a vision towards the future, combined with a certain nostalgia for the past, particularily the way vegetables were grown and tended, the way livestock was treated, the connection to the land that is almost non-existent these days except in rural areas. While I do not see a future in the short term for codification of such a concept as law, the baby steps in the food industry towards promoting organic foods and free range meat has already penetrated the market. There are already enough people willing to pay a bit more to get top quality goods.

It's the first step in educating the public to the concept of 'respect for all living things', IMO. Mind you, I am just a humble tradesman. I know nothing of politics. All I know is that lots o' rich folk are moving to the suburbs, and aren't too happy with the current infrastructure.

Bo, your point about ideals planting a seed to be tended carefully is one I also share; what worries me about starting a new movement is that they so often become polarizing and sometimes lead to violence. I really didn't mean to knock down your idea so abruptly, I was only expressing what I've seen in my long life when good things lead to something ugly.

Are you familiar with the Nature Conservancy? As part of its goal toward conservation, that organization works with farmers and ranchers so that they can still earn a living while the Nature Conservancy implements methods of conservation on parts of their land. It not only helps preserve areas that normally would have gone the way of so much grazing land, it also helps educate farmers and ranchers in conservation methods that will, in the end, help increase the efficiency of their land while preserving a natural ecosystem. Anyway, I do admire your idealism.

Cav, what you and others in your profession are doing is an excellent start. Dys used to farm and ranch and he also butchered his own meat. The animals roamed free and were fed quality food. They were never given growth hormones or filled up with water before butchering in order to make money on the extra weight. At work, he often was demonized for butchering his animals. I guess those people thought the meat the purchased was manufactured in the grocery stores.

Diane, I am disgusted by people who have no interest in knowing where their food comes from. The supposedly 'high-end' meat shops just sell pre-processed attractive looking prime cuts, nothing interesting, and everything overpriced.

A proper butcher knows you cannot run a shop like that. If there isn't enough to put in the counter, you custom cut it. I have a great wholesaler who butchers all his own meat, and makes his own proscuitto, and a wide variety of fresh and dry sausage as well, and some deli meat too. That's the guy I am going to support. I shopped there close to Easter, and saw the delivery dudes hauling in the lamb and goat carcasses. The lambs were 'naked', but the goats had the whole fur-on thing going for them. It was a beautiful sight. That, and the old guy poking the whole pig to check if it was good enough for the spit.

Utopian schemes have an unfortunate tendency of becoming nightmare dystopias. They give everyone a nice warm, cozy feeling as they are formulated. The Communist Manifesto really sounds good the first time we read it, but I doubt that many survivors of the Gulag retain much faith in it.

There is a positive danger to enacting laws and manifestos based on "ought". Such pronouncements wouldn't be necessary if it were human nature to behave the way someone thinks they "ought" to behave. People and human affairs are more complex than any formula for making a perfect, or even better, world. We are driven not so much by what is prescribed by others in high-sounding terms, as we are by our immediate desires and perceptions of what we want. "Ought" people to be more thoughtful, patient, compassionate, giving, etc.? Sure, but saying so won't make it so. We are overloaded, especially in the world of the early 21st century, by "information" and interest groups vying for our attention. I think many, perhaps most of us, begin to filter out a lot of the messages so urgently pushed on us. This idea is just another bit of background noise, because it is overly simple in a complex world. It is not possible to implement, and even if it were the negative consequences would be large.

There is a sentiment that the world would somehow be better if there was a single world government, or if the UN had the ability to forcibly implement it's decisions. I think that would lead to a nightmarish world far more frightening than the seeming chaos we have today. Imagine a world where there was no escape for a person or group opposing the universal order. Is that which is "good" for Nigeria, also "good" for Belgium? Who is to decide where and how world resources are distributed? Would any appreciable number of American's give up our Justice system for one based on the Napoleonic Code, or where a person must prove their innocence? To implement the manifesto suggested by this thread, the UN would have to use force and the individual freedom of every person in the world would be circumscribed. Privacy and personal preference would vanish to ensure that no one would have a juicy steak, or use force to defend their lives or property. The individual would be reduced to nothing, while the power of the State would be everything.

No, no, no. Never, and I doubt if you would be able to convince more than a handful of thoughtful people anywhere in the world to adopt such a simplistic policy.

I don't think a world government need necessarily confuse Nigeria with Belgium, any more than we in the United States confuse Maine with California. For any government to work there has to be a certain local autonomy. As for Americans giving up the right of innocent until proven guilty (a concept only barely adhered to in many cases) I don't see that happening.

Just because a utopian theory may not ever see the 'light' of 'law' doesn't negate the importance of the process of educating people to a wider perspective.

Yes, education is by far the most effective way to support viable methods that need an educated public in order for them to work. Even that would be difficult to enforce, seeing that some schools teach creationism alongside evolution. But as long as the information is out there, a few people will pick up on it and make it a part of the way they lead their lives. If only....

I voted yes mainly to even the score (36% yes and 36% no). What I really advocate is that we stop boiling lobsters alive.

LOL, JLN, you wouldn't be saying that if you'd ever had one in Maine right out of the ocean! It is heaven. After dinner, don't forget to have the Maine wild blueberry deep dish pie ala mode. That is an experience that makes me feel like I've died and gone to heaven--not that heaven exists, but, you get the idea?