Did Jesus Really exist?

@Setanta,

said- "The first official "persecution" of christians was in the reign of Septimius Severus, from 193 to 211..
..Of course, church leaders got to tell everyone what to do, and that's always been a popular pastime."
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I thought persecution of Christians began when they executed Jesus?
Then the snooty priests carried on hassling Christians by hiring a bounty hunter named Saul to go around rounding them up for punishment.
As for control-freak church leaders, that was never a part of true Christianity.. Smile

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"Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you.." (1 Peter 5:2-3)

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

Any sentence which you begin with the verb "think" is automatically suspect."Bounty hunter?"--what is this, the gospel according to Gunsmoke? Jewish priests had zero authority in the Roman world.

Christians always trot out this crap about who is or is not a true christsian. It's feeble bullsh*t, and it answers nothing. As you are clearly ignorant of the times and the cultures, i'm not going to waste any more time on you. You are pathetically ignorant. You need to educate yourself, and preferably with non-christian sources.

3 Replies

@Setanta,

said- "Jewish priests had zero authority in the Roman world.."
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Pontius Pilate found Jesus not guilty, but the snooty jewish priests had enough pull to talk him into signing a death warrant!
"Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.' Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified, so the soldiers took charge of Jesus " (John 19: 12-16)

1 Reply

@Setanta,

said- "Christians always trot out this crap about who is or is not a true christsian. It's feeble bullsh*t, and it answers nothing"
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Of all the so-called christians I've met in my life, only about 1 in every 20 is the sort I wouldn't mind spending eternity with, but the rest I'd cross the road to avoid.
They feel the same way about me, and some of my biggest enemies on the internet discussion boards are so-called christians.
In fact I was pressured out of a "christian" forum only recently, they closed down two of my threads and deleted one of my posts and I'd only been posting there for a couple of weeks, so I walked out.
No sweat, their sort can't get under the Bibles radar.. Smile

Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
Jesus said - "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.You will know them by their fruits... every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit...Therefore by their fruits you'll know them" (Matt 7:15-20)
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.." (2 Cor 11:13/14)

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

High Strangeness wrote:

said- "Jewish priests had zero authority in the Roman world.."
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Pontius Pilate found Jesus not guilty, but the snooty jewish priests had enough pull to talk him into signing a death warrant!
"Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.' Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified, so the soldiers took charge of Jesus " (John 19: 12-16)

Setanta was not wrong my friend, There is a difference between authority and influence, The Jewish priests did not have authority over Pilate, but they did wield a strong influence over the Jews, this gave Pilate a reason to listen.

Just a heads up,When Paraphrasing scripture, be careful not to quote it as if it were verbatim, there are those in these parts who like their scriptures uncooked Smile

Welcome to A2k High

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@Smileyrius,

said- "The Jewish priests did not have authority over Pilate, but they did wield a strong influence over the Jews, this gave Pilate a reason to listen"
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Whichever way you want to look at it, the priests talked Pilate into overturning his "not guilty" verdict, so they had considerable clout..-

"Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting- “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”
Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified, so the soldiers took charge of Jesus. " (John 19: 12-16)

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@Smileyrius,

said to me- "Welcome to A2k High"
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Thanks but it's interesting that you should append the word 'High' to give the impression that A2K is a school for learning.. Wink

I can't speak for others but personally my learning curve ended many years ago and I now stand- "..firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (Colossians 4:12)
and as an "iron man" hopefully my strength will rub off on others.. Smile

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)

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@High Strangeness,

Quote:

Of all the so-called christians I've met in my life, only about 1 in every 20 is the sort I wouldn't mind spending eternity with, but the rest I'd cross the road to avoid.

But what of His commandments that you seem so certain that you hold dear?

Quote:

Matthew 5:
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

The word "perfect" in this text translates from the Greek word teleios, which means:

"complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.)"

Now it seems to me that speaks of maturity. However, I fail to see how one can call themselves "mature" when they admittedly don't practice even the simplest of the commandments themselves.

Setanta said:

Quote:

..."Bounty hunter?"--what is this, the gospel according to Gunsmoke?...

Bwaaaaaaahahaha! That was FUNNY!

1 Reply

@onevoice,

said- "However, I fail to see how one can call themselves "mature" when they admittedly don't practice even the simplest of the commandments themselves ("Love thy neighbour")
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Jesus told the snooty priests they were "full of filth...offspring of vipers...hell-bound", yet he also "loved" them enough to try to make them see sense rather than leave them hanging out to dry.
Christians in forums are doing the same thing, helping unbelievers and fundies rather than just writing them off and abandoning them.. Smile

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@anthony1312002,

Great topic!

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Jewish priests had zero authority in the Roman world.

And by the same token, religious people have no authority in today's world (speaking of 'the west' in which we both live).

Both are false btw because the issue is Influence which is just as significant.

And yet you rant about having religion 'stuffed down your throat'.

Your contradictions make your posts patent bull ****.

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

Quote:

Jesus told the snooty priests they were "full of filth...offspring of vipers...hell-bound", yet he also "loved" them enough to try to make them see sense rather than leave them hanging out to dry.

What do you mean by that exactly? When you said "hanging them out to dry". Is that what you feel other forums are doing? Certain Christian groups or churches? Christian's in general?

Quote:

Christians in forums are doing the same thing, helping unbelievers and fundies rather than just writing them off and abandoning them..Smile

Can you show me who exactly Jesus wrote off? Are you willing to consider that perhaps part of the reason things go the way they do in "forums"... or appear to go anyway... for you in particular, may be in your approach? I don't know too many people who want to get all too close to either a porcupine or skunk. They really aren't that approachable and to top it off... Often times getting too close results in some nasty consequences for everyone BUT the porcupine or skunk! Just saying. Wink

1 Reply

@onevoice,

siad- "Can you show me who exactly Jesus wrote off?"
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Yup, he said talk to people, but if they won't listen, WALK.. Smile

"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)

PS- I know a middleaged "christian" who ignores that verse and hangs around with assorted numbnuts, he admitted to me that they make him feel drained, but he can't or won't cut himself loose from them and his brain has turned to mush and he's become a loser himself.
It's not rocket science.. Smile

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"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
"Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor 15:33)
"If you hang around with losers, you become a loser"- Donald Trump

1 Reply

@High Strangeness,

Quote:

Yup, he said talk to people, but if they won't listen, WALK..Smile
"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)

Jesus didn't write them off. At no point did He say, "And I am writing them off too." Did He? He was instructing His disciples how to behave when rejected. To wipe the dust off their feet... A symbolism of taking nothing of that city with them. Have you ever considered what those things were that He didn't want them taking?

Bitterness and hurt over the rejection...

Anger and resentment because they weren't "heard" as they supposed they would...

Fear or doubt about the calling God had placed on them and the gifts He had placed in them...

Which leads to pride and the capacity to reject others and feel justified for doing it.

All things that hinder spiritual growth and maturity.

Our walk with God is a journey... not a free ride.

The learning never ends. Even when one does reach "maturity". The difference between spiritual maturity and spiritual immaturity is that Maturity understands the difference between the love of Christ and the love of the world. Spiritual Immaturity does not.

Quote:

"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)

Good quote. Quick question... How is it that someone who is not wise knows that they are a fool?

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

You're peddling BS, which is nothing new. Pointing something out is not ranting. These subjects never come up in real life, only online, with the petulant preachy retards such as we get around here.

So on the one hand, you want to talk about influence, while on the other you whine about me claiming that i have religion stuffed down my throat. So holy rollers posting here have no influence? That's a pathetic straw man, i've made no such complaint. Oh certainly, lots of the holy rollers here would like to do that, but no one can victimize you online unless you cooperate in the effort.

Jewish priests had no influence in the Roman world, either.

1 Reply

@onevoice,

asked- "Quick question... How is it that someone who is not wise knows that they are a fool?"
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When Klaatu and ET arrived on earth the Establishment scaredy-cat fools started wetting themselves and reached for their guns, they might not know they were fools but WE know they are.. Smile

Same when Jesus arrived on earth and said "I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going....you are of this world, I am not of this world.." (John 8:14/ 8:23/10:38), the snooty fool priests broke out their Uzis and went after him.
Even today some people badmouth Jesus, perhaps he scares them too, I dunno.. Wink

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Did Bugs Bunny really exist? The sacred comic books and Looney Tunes films tell us so. Let the nay sayers persecute the true knowledge. We will only double down in our truth. When they seek to ridicule you or cut you off, proudly enunciate the greatest phrase ever coined: "WHAT'S UP DOC?"

1 Reply

@Setanta,

said- "Jewish priests had no influence in the Roman world, either"
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Right, but in Israel the priests ruled the roost, for example Pilate decided Jesus was a harmless nut so he told him- "on yer bike and vamoose mate", but the jewish priests and the mob talked him into signing a death warrant-
Luke 23-
22 "And Pilate said unto them the third time, Why, what evil has he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore flog him, and let him go.
23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required."

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@edgarblythe,

asked- "Did Bugs Bunny really exist?
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Well nobody actually SAW him because he never played the Hollywood Bowl or Carnegie Hall or the London Palladium as far as I know.
But Jesus on the other hand was seen by thousands who flocked to his gigs-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)

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@High Strangeness,

There are zero eyewitness accounts of Jesus, no contemporary writing mentioning him. It is possible a man inspired the Bible Jesus, but there is no smoking gun anywhere, unless scholars have just not yet discovered one.

1 Reply

Did Jesus Really exist?

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