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A breath of fresh air from an Imam

 
 
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 07:31 am
http://www.thelocal.it/20160819/italy-imam-defends-burqinis-with-beach-going-nuns-photo

This fellow seems quite sane if one reads the whole not very long article..

Photo is in the article (I can't add photos with my computer at this point).
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 08:03 am
@ossobucotemp,
I do not think that the comparasing a nun and a muslim woman in burquni is good.
A nun wears her outfit as a kind of uniform when she joins the cloister and in case she changes her mind and leave she will wear normal cloth again.
A nun who goes swimming puts on a bathingsuit
A Muslim woman is told what to wear by the laws men have made up. No matter what she has to wear what she is told according to law.
The burquini has given these women a certain freedom for going swimming and these outfits if worn by non muslim women probably means they have an allergy against sun.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 09:34 am
@saab,
They are similarly wearing the clothing at the beach for religious reasons. I was a Catholic once signed up with a religious order, but didn't go, and years later am non-religious, though I'm not anti-religion generally speaking.

In my day, a long time ago, convents rarely had pools. I've no idea about now.
Just after all that going on with me, nuns in the U.S. changed a lot, usually foregoing habits in their orders, unless they were in the few cloistered orders. It may have been the Immaculate Heart nuns in Los Angeles that started it in the U.S., maybe under Pope John XXIII, but whatever order started it, the changes grew rapidly. Those habit free nuns often worked in "the world" helping people and were dressed as ordinary women, modestly. Whether they went to gyms and swam, or to the ocean and swam, I have no idea.

You're naturally welcome to your opinion that my considering the Imam's noticing the similarites was refreshing was not a good thing.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 09:45 am
@saab,
Quote:
A Muslim woman is told what to wear by the laws men have made up. No matter what she has to wear what she is told according to law.


I love irony. We are talking about a law that tells Muslim women that they can't wear a burqini.

Why shouldn't Muslim women be allowed to choose for themselves if they want to wear a burqini or not. A law that dictates that women show a certain amount of skin to be allowed in public is not a progressive law.


0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:27 am
@ossobucotemp,
Imam must see the difference between the "Muslim women" and "Nuns". NUNS select that life and accept n office of PIETY< CHASTITY< AND OBEDIENCE. This is their CONTRACT .
A muslim woman does not have to be in a religious order.


The Catholoc rules of modesty have changed until, the entire concept was made optional.

I was in a Catholic Church FOR A FUCKIN WEDDING and there were people dressed like hillbilly goatherders.
ossobucotemp
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:38 am
@farmerman,
I do get the differences - I was interested in the similarities. It's been a long long time since I've seen nuns in habits, but this photo was taken in Italy. I have seen them in Rome, for sure. Indeed I'll guess they may have been visiting nuns (from wherever) on some kind of tour that later would include the vatican. Or not..
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:42 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
The Catholoc rules of modesty have changed until, the entire concept was made optional.


that's quite variable by order
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:12 am
@ossobucotemp,
There are even Lutheran nuns now who use habits. I have seen also deaconess in habits - at least in Germany.
Munks also wear a habit - not only Christian munks
All of that is volountary.
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:16 am
@saab,
Have you never splashed your feet like the nuns in water when you had no bathingsuit along.?
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:38 am
@saab,
Who are you talking to? I presume it's me.
I also presume many muslim women are happy with their religion and that others are not. Clearly, anti-muslims can't abide the religion in either case. I don't know how many muslims may not fully follow it. That is beside my point, which is that there are similarities between those nuns' beach clothing and muslim women wearing burkinis at the beach. The Imam seems fine with Italy having its freedoms, at least from the article.

Me, I lived by the ocean for decades and ran on the sand by the water in clothing that fit the seasons in southern California. I never swam in the Pacific, except once every few years in coves in California or Mexico, so I rarely wore a bathing suit there, except when a was a silly teen wanting a tan. For actual swimming, I swam miles at the Y. This all is none of your business.

saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:25 pm
@ossobucotemp,
There are no similarities - in my opinion - between the nuns, who are by the ocean taking off stockings and shoes to have fun in the water. It is not their beach clothing it is their dialy clothing. It is like if I walk along a sandy beach and take off my shoes and stockings and pull up my slacks to walk into the water. Then you cannot compare my outfit with a burkini.
Burkinis are instead of a bathingsuit as Muslim women are not allowed to show any form of skin.
Some Muslim girls in Sweden and other places are not allowed to take part in school sports. Boys are sometimes forced to wear T-shirt and underwear when taking a shower.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:30 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

There are no similarities - in my opinion - between the nuns, who are by the ocean taking off stockings and shoes to have fun in the water. It is not their beach clothing it is their dialy clothing. It is like if I walk along a sandy beach and take off my shoes and stockings and pull up my slacks to walk into the water. Then you cannot compare my outfit with a burkini.
Burkinis are instead of a bathingsuit as Muslim women are not allowed to show any form of skin.
Some Muslim girls in Sweden and other places are not allowed to take part in school sports. Boys are sometimes forced to wear T-shirt and underwear when taking a shower.


In what circumstances is it morally acceptable to force a woman to show more skin than she is comfortable with showing?

A burqini is not street clothes. It is designed to be a bathing suit.

I don't see why a woman shouldn't be given the freedom to wear one.

ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:39 pm
@saab,
So you've said earlier and you are welcome to your point of view, as I am mine.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 01:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I don't see why a woman shouldn't be given the freedom to wear one

I have nothing against burkinis. They are even a good idea for women who cannot otherwise be in the sun and swim.
What I am against is that the daily outfit of a nun is compared to a burkini which is a form of swimmingsuit.
You cannot compare working cloth and swimming outfits.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 01:19 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

I do not think that the comparasing a nun and a muslim woman in burquni is good.


I agree.

Muslim and other women have the option to wear burqini. Nuns in many orders don't have the option to swim publicly at all.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 01:27 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:
A Muslim woman is told what to wear by the laws men have made up. No matter what she has to wear what she is told according to law.


That's not completely true. A lot of Muslim women in the West choose to cover up. It's their choice, they're not doing it because men are telling them to. They should be allowed to wear what they want.
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 02:08 pm
@izzythepush,
Yes women do choose to cover up - but still the rules were made by men from the very beginning.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 02:19 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

saab wrote:

I do not think that the comparasing a nun and a muslim woman in burquni is good.


I agree.

Muslim and other women have the option to wear burqini. Nuns in many orders don't have the option to swim publicly at all.

I once saw an elderly French nun at the station in Nice for the Chemin de Fer de Provence, the little narrow gauge railway that goes up to the mountains to Digne-les-Bains. She was furious because she had come down from Digne and there wasn't a Nice convent car there to pick her up. She went to the booking window and demanded (and got) the guy's landline phone handed out to her. She called the convent. By now everybody in the station foyer was interested. She got through to the convent. The nuns had, it seemed, gone to the mainline SNCF station. When she heard this she slammed the phone down and yelled "Ah pute!" (That's like saying '****' in English). She sat down on a bench and got her cigarettes out, and puffed furiously on two or three in short order. You should have seen peoples faces. I went and sat by her and gave her one of mine and had a nice chat while we waited for the car to pick her up. She told me she was 82 and had been a nun since she was 16.


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 02:22 pm
@contrex,
The seniors residence my dad lives in has a group of retired nuns (did I know nuns retired?). He has commented on the strong personalities some of them have. His best pal in Canada become a priest after his wife died. Father T was quite a salty character. Being religious doesn't mean someone is timid.
saab
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2016 02:48 pm
@ehBeth,
So true.......except for very reformed.
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