1
   

Bigotry and criticism of Islam

 
 
vikorr
 
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 02:27 am
Because Islamic Terrorist incidents are becoming such a big issue in the West - and Islamophia, and in particular, Bigotry, is such a common accusation in real life & on these forums (particularly where criticism of Islam occurs), I would like to ask some questions of people:

1. If one person educates themself before forming an opinion - and the other doesn't before forming an opinion: who is the bigot?

2. If one person acknowledges evidence, and the other doesn't acknowledge evidence: who is the bigot?

3. If one person is polite about others views, and the other spews vitriol at others for disagreeing with them: who is the bigot?

4. If one person takes others views at face value, and the other person constantly misrepresents their 'opponents' views: who is the bigot?

5. If one person points out poor behaviour of their 'opponent' - with evidence, while the other person negatively labels and attempts to demonise their 'opponent': who is the bigot?

Whatever your answers to these questions: remember them when discussions come up that you disagree with.
-------------------------------------------------

Before any side chucks around the word bigot / islamophobia - Isn't it incumbent on anyone who uses the words, to first ensure that they know what Islams holy texts actually say?

When actions (ongoing Islamic terrorist incidents) continually don't match words (Islam is a religion of peace), isn't it incumbent on us to find out why such a glaring discrepancy exists before we chuck around the words bigot, and Islamophia?

Should we make the accusation of bigotry from a position of ignorance (of the Quran/Hadiths)? Before we make such an accusation - on either side - should we not at least have a good idea of what is in these books?

I wonder how a person can arrive at the conclusion of bigotry regarding criticism of Islam, without first knowing what is in the Quran / Hadiths for themselves. Surely such an accusation should be made in knowledge rather than ignorance.

http://quran.com/

http://noblequran.com/translation/index.html
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,121 • Replies: 13
No top replies

 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 02:36 am
@vikorr,
In terms of criticism, and what is acceptable. Wouldn't it be true to say:

- If you’ve ever criticised communism, you accept that ideology can be criticised

- If you don’t accept the economic mantra ‘greed is good (for the economy)’ - adhered to by many economists, you accept that ideology can be criticised

- If you’ve ever criticised a political parties ideology, you accept that ideology can be criticised

- If you think that the Vietnam war was a mistake, you accept that ideology (the domino theory) can be criticised

- If you don’t like the effects of Patriotism in the lead up to a war (like the Vietnam war), you accept that even simple ideology (the concept of patriotism) can be criticised

- If you have ever criticised ‘unrestricted’ welfare, for creating pockets of multi-generational welfare families, then you accept that ideology can be criticised

- If you’ve ever criticised Christianity, you accept that (religious) ideology can be criticised (this is of course, highly relevant to whether or not criticism of Islam is acceptable)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you accept the principle inherent in the above line of thinking (ideology can be criticised, particularly for its negative affects) – then:
- avoiding (even contemplating) criticism of the ideology of Islam (particularly in light of ongoing terrorist incidents), and/or
- denouncing those who criticise the religious ideology that is contributing to violence in Islam’s name, for nothing more than being critical - is hypocritical

Do we engage in hypocrisy - or do we look at whether or not criticism is justified... in the only source possible to work out whether or not criticism is justified - in Islams holy books?

Of course if the criticism is not justified by Islams holy texts, then accusations of bigotry would be true. So then, once again, before we throw the accusation of bigotry around - it is not incumbent on us to first know what we are talking about? Prior to throwing around the accusation of Bigotry - is it not incumbent on us to know something about the Quran and the Hadiths?

Links to the Quran are in the first post
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 02:42 am
@vikorr,
For reference, the Quran is:
- not in chronological order.
- It is not stories, but 'the revelations of god'
- Its dual in nature, in that it has many contradictory statements
- to overcome this duality - there exists the Islamic 'theory of abrogation' where a later revelation of allah is always stronger than an earlier revelation of Allah. Chapter (Surah) 9 is one of the last chapters 'revealed by Allah'

A reading from any discussion on the Quran can confirm this (wikipedia probably explains it)
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 03:03 am
@vikorr,
1. Both of them - Because one relies on potentially unfounded education - And the other for doing the same.
2. Both of them - Because one relies on potentially unfounded information - And the other for doing the same.
3. Both of them - Because one relies on potentially unfounded politeness - And the other for doing the same.
4. Both of them - Because one relies on potentially unfounded values - And the other for doing the same.
5. Both of them - Because one relies on potentially unfounded judgement - And the other for doing the same.

Or
1. Neither - Because we are all wise in our own minds.
2. Neither - Because we are all wise in our own minds.
Same for 3, 4 and 5.

Or
One or the other depending on your relative vision of (attachment to) specific correlations therewith.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 03:44 am
Definitions of Bigot from around the web

http://www.yourdictionary.com/bigot
1. a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc.
2. a narrow-minded, prejudiced person

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bigot
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bigot
A person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bigot?s=t
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 03:49 am
@vikorr,
Do you see yourself in any of those definitions?
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 03:53 am
@vikorr,
As for the last definition - Would you willingly accept satanists (a group) into your household?

I wouldn't. So I'm a bigot.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 04:15 am
@mark noble,
I personally think the Cambridge Dictionary definition seems the most reasonable when you apply scenarios to it - so not accepting satanists into your house wouldn't be bigoted. Is it bigoted to be intolerant of intolerance? Again, I think the cambridge definition would pass that test.

As a personal viewpoint, I think the tests are, a person:

- who thinks their opinion is the only possible right opinion/belief etc; and
- who's opinion is an unreasonable opinion: ie. the opinion ignores evidence to the contrary of their opinion, or draws un unreasonable conclusion from the evidence; and
- because of the preceding conditions, they are intolerant of other opinions/beliefs etc;
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 04:21 am
@vikorr,
No master above, No slave below.
Everything is equal and everything is perfect.
0 Replies
 
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2016 07:36 pm
@vikorr,
I agree that before we criticize something we should have familiar knowledge of it.
0 Replies
 
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:12 pm
@vikorr,
Then you would have sided with George III and tortured and killed the Founding Fathers for this bit of intolerance :

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

It is especially the word 'Unalienable" isn't it ?
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 04:14 pm
@AugustineBrother,
Quote:
Then you would have sided with George III and tortured and killed the Founding Fathers for this bit of intolerance :
Throughout my posts in this thread, the main points have been:

- we should at least have some knowledge of a subject (in this case, the Quran / Hadiths/Mohammed's life) before we call a person criticising the subject 'bigot' (and further that we should know what bigotry entails).

-Read the Quran/Hadiths for yourself, find out whether or not there are grounds for criticism - and make up your own mind from a position or knowledge, rather than ignorance.

-Links to Quran in the first post.

From that - How on earth did you come up with such an out there assertion (quoted)?
0 Replies
 
AugustineBrother
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2016 01:01 pm
@vikorr,
Until I see Muslims condemning the perpetrators of atrocities and allowing Freedom of Conscience then every Honor Killing I see adds truth to what is said.

Muslim Turned Christian Girl Flees Honor Killing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnvV85uHQ_s
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2016 05:17 pm
@AugustineBrother,
Not quite the topic of this thread, and not a reply to my question.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Bigotry and criticism of Islam
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 09/24/2021 at 03:04:07