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Adultery, Turkey and Europe

 
 
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:34 pm
Quote:
EU irked by Turkish adultery law

Turkey's plans to make adultery a crime could affect its chances of joining the European Union, EU enlargement commissioner Guenter Verheugen says.
The bill, to be presented to parliament next week, may be seen as Islamic law entering Turkish law, he warned.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a devout Muslim, says the bill will help protect women from deception.

An EU report due out in October will assess Turkey's progress towards meeting EU membership criteria.

The adultery law is part of a package of sweeping changes to the penal code, which include the abolition of torture and the expansion of individual liberties. The changes are an effort to bring Turkey's legal code into line with European human rights legislation.

Bad impression

Mr Verheugen, who has spent the last few days touring Turkey, expressed his concerns in an interview with the Turkish Vatan newspaper.

"If Turkey tries to include crimes that are not in other countries' laws in its penal code, European Union countries could interpret this as Islamic law entering Turkish law," he told the paper.

He added that he was not "defending adultery", but said "Turkey should not give the impression... that it is introducing Islamic elements into its legal system while engaged in a great project such as the EU".

Women's groups and liberal commentators have condemned the bill, saying it would be used against women and pushes the secular Muslim state closer to an Islamic legal model.

But the main opposition party says it will not challenge it, provided men face the same penalties as women.

The BBC's Virginia Gidley-Kitchin says adultery used to be illegal in Turkey until 1996, when the Constitutional Court struck the law down because it penalised women more than men.

Men were deemed to have been adulterous if they were involved in a long-term affair; but women could be charged if they were unfaithful only once.

Temel Karamollaoglu, a member of the Islamist Saadet party - which is more conservative than Mr Erdogan's governing AKP - says the law is necessary to protect the family and the society.

"At present adultery is accepted as a cause for divorce, and it is not accepted in society," he told the BBC. "The point is whether it should be punishable or not.

"We think that Turkey should join the EU, but not really accepting every detail in the moral value, not every aspect of European society at present. Countries may have different cultures. I accept European Union as a multi-cultural, multi-religious society."


Positive

Women's groups plan to demonstrate against the bill when it is presented to parliament on 14 September.

Canan Arin, of the Women's Rights Centre at the Istanbul Bar Association, says it is a violation of the constitution protecting individual's privacy.

"Everyone has the right to demand respect for his private and family life," she said. Ms Arin fears the bill will work against women, as traditional women are reluctant to complain about their husbands.

"If they bring it, it will provoke honour killings more than ever," she said.

The BBC's Jonny Dymond in Istanbul says Mr Verheugen has given the impression of enjoying his visit but has stressed that it is the implementation of reforms that he is most interested in.

He stressed that the use of torture must be punished and he called for further cultural freedoms for Turkey's large Kurdish community.

According to our correspondent, it seems pretty clear from his more informal comments and demeanour that Mr Verheugen wants to give Turkey the kind of report which would boost its membership hopes.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:36 pm
The Turkish (press) reactation:


Quote:
Verheugen Discusses Turkey's E.U. Membership In Fener Greek Patriarchate
Anadolu Agency: 9/9/2004
ISTANBUL - Turkey's membership to the European Union (EU) and the problems of minorities in Turkey were discussed during the meeting of Guenter Verheugen, EU Commissioner for Enlargement, in Fener Greek Patriarchate on Thursday.

Chief Rabbi of Jews in Turkey Ishak Haleva told reporters after the meeting that they had a fruitful meeting with Verheugen. He added, ''everything is fine in Turkey after EU adjustment laws and the most important thing is that there is goodwill.''

Meanwhile, Vatican's representative in Turkey George Marovich said that important progress was made regarding Turkey's entry to the EU. He added, ''Turkish people deserve to be governed by democracy. Turkey will bring richness to Europe with its accession to the EU. Europe will also benefit from Turkey's richness.''

syriac Catholic community's representative Yusuf Sag told reporters that Turkey's membership to the EU and minority issues were taken up during the meeting.

Patriarchate First Secretary Filadepfias, Chief Rabbi of Jews in Turkey Ishak Haleva , Vatican's representative in Turkey George Marovich , Latin Catholic community's representative Louis Pelatre, Syriac Catholic community's representative Yusuf Sag, and Armenian Orthodox community's representative Kirkor Damatyan joined the meeting with Mr. Verheugen.
Source
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:41 pm
Adultery...used to, quit

Turkey....eat a lot of it..good protein source

Europe....never been hope to go....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:44 pm
What about infantry, if the Turks have a policy on adultery, do they have a policy on infantry?

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:52 pm
Quote:
[quote]Ruling Ak Party Decides To Consider Adultery As Crime On Condition One Of The Parties Complains
[/b]
AFP: 9/9/2004
ANKARA - The Central Executive Board of the ruling Justice & Development Party (AK Party) decided to consider adultery as a crime in an amendment to Turkish Penal Code (TCK), on the basis of gender equality and on condition that one of the parties indicted the other, sources said early on Thursday.

Sources said that the Central Executive Board of AK Party rewrote the amendment which would be discussed at an extraordinary session of the parliament chaired by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan himself.

The sources noted that AK Party also foresaw imprisonment for those who committed adultery.

On the other hand, Haluk Ipek, AK Party deputy chairman, told reporters after the meeting, ''draft TCK is like a reform.''

Ipek added, ''the current law is one prepared according the understanding during Mussolini's days. And, it ignores human rights. Human rights are accorded more importance in the actual draft (of TCK) to be discussed on September 14th. New arrangements are foreseen by the draft regarding crimes in informatics and child pornography. Although the draft has some good points, the press has only dwelled upon adultery.''[/quote]Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:57 pm
I do think that we have somehow this internal affair in Turkey.

No EU-country considers adultery as a crime, and this certainly will be just what sections who do not want Turkey within the EU are waiting for.
The German conservatives already started doing so.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:42 pm
walter wrote : "No EU-country considers adultery as a crime, and this certainly will be just what sections who do not want Turkey within the EU are waiting for.
The German conservatives already started doing so". walter, does this mean that the german conservatives are actually in favour of adultery or are they simply trying to keep turkey out of the E.U. ? i thought that the conservatives were not part of 'the permissive society' , should they not really be in favour of admitting a country with higher moral standards ? in reality, should a countries laws regarding adultery have any weight in the admissions policy (assuming that it expresses the true opinion of ALL its citizens) ? i recall when we came to canada, laws regarding divorce were quite restrictive; now it seems that it is almost as easy to get a divoce as buying a lottery ticket (personally i think it has perhaps become somewhat to easy to get divorced- or perhaps it should be more difficult to get married. maybe a bond should be posted by couples wanting to get married). hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:26 pm
The CDU in favour for adultery? Never!


But the CDU (conservatives) don't want Turkey to become an EU-member.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:42 pm
I have no clue what I think of specific voting choices and their repercussions, but I am surely not for adultery being a crime.

Of course I am not there to vote.
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:53 pm
The EU has right, that's not adequate.
Actually in the broader sense is this also against the principles of Kemal Atatürk.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 12:02 am
A friend of mine was trying to get me to set up a base in Cappadoccia, about six months ago and I said no. I'd admit to wanting to go to italy and be quiet and write, but not jump to turkey and be a businesswoman. Picture osso wheeling and dealing from cappadoccia.

oh, never mind.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 10:38 am
i should have prefaced my comments with : 'this is a joke' or 'tongue in check comment'; even though i know that this is a serious subject. the attitude of the european/german conservatives reminds me somewhat of the north-american conservatives who talk of 'family values' and 'sanctity of the marriage', but think nothing of getting divorced, remarried, divorced again ... 'do as i say, not as i do' seems still to have currency - as always. hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 01:04 pm
Quote:
Turkey 'withdraws adultery ban'

The opposition in Turkey says the government has reversed plans to criminalise adultery, removing the proposal from a package of reforms.

The proposed move was part of sweeping changes to laws intended to bring them closer to those of EU member states.

The measure provoked criticism from women's rights groups and officials scrutinising Turkey's bid to join EU.

The news came as the government and opposition parties debated the legal reforms in parliament.

The BBC's Jonny Dymond in Ankara says the decision represents the first time the country has so publicly stepped back from a legal proposal because of EU objections.

A vote on the package of measures is expected to take place in three or four days' time.

Mixed response

Many of the reforms - which include outlawing torture and imposing stiffer penalties on human traffickers - have been welcomed by the EU and human rights activists.

But the clause to make adultery a crime was greeted with dismay by women's groups and liberal commentators, who demonstrated outside parliament against the bill.

"Such a law will not save marriages. On the contrary, it will ruin them," women's rights advocate Senal Saruhan told the Associated Press news agency.

"It is a backward approach that will allow the state to intervene in our lives."

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a devout Muslim, had said the clause, introduced late in the draft code, would help protect women from deception.

Our correspondent says that the proposal had met with widespread popular support from many in the conservative country.

Warning

An EU report due out in October will assess Turkey's progress towards meeting EU membership criteria.

Guenter Verheugen, the European commissioner for enlargement, commented on the adultery clause during a trip to Turkey last week.

"I cannot understand how a measure like this could be considered at such a time," Mr Verheugen said. "It can only be a joke."

Adultery used to be illegal in Turkey until 1996, when the Constitutional Court struck the law down because it penalised women more than men.

Men were deemed to have been adulterous if they were involved in a long-term affair; but women could be charged if they were unfaithful only once.

Source
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 01:10 pm
Well I like Europe
I like Turkey, and Chicken
As for adultery, I couldn't possibly comment
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 01:22 pm
Do the wife read this stuff, too, Boss?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 01:26 pm
Wife in bourkha
Wife 2 in jilbahb
Wife 3 in blue fit

Me? Armageddon outta here
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 01:53 pm
Setanta wrote:
Do the wife read this stuff, too, Boss?


Mine does, and she tells her Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 02:06 pm
You boys are all hog-tied by them wimmins . . . my heart goes out to ya, but i can't reach ya . . .
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 02:44 pm
that you talkin', set ? hbg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2004 02:53 pm
Nachtigall, ick hör' Dir trapsen :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

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