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German public pool bans the burqini, what do you think?

 
 
Miss L Toad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 02:22 am
Who will ever forget "Don't Phuket To Re Member Me" that classic Thai transgender operation holiday anthem.

Miss L Toad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 02:38 am
@Miss L Toad,
BeeGeesuz what a holiday, they told me to mass eschew sex, and next day a pre-pubescent drug runner set me up with a bag of joy and the police pounced. Phuket.

0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 02:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

jespah wrote:
If this woman wore a full-body suit because she had a rash, would they still be complaining?
Persons with rash are generally not allowed there.


How would they know the woman had a rash, if the swimsuit outfit completely covered her up?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 03:10 pm
I guess I should admit to feeling a bias when I see any variation of the burqa. Several female students wear various coverings, and my initial reaction is a negative feeling. Wrong or right, I think the Muslim religion is disgustingly misogynistic.

This is one feeling/belief that hasn't changed for me. Some people argue that women choose to cover themselves, but I believe these women are trapped in societies or households that threaten their lives - or at least their safety - similar to Stockholm Syndrome - and these women have been conditioned to believe covering and FGM are their choices... but no free person would choose such an isolation from the world.

I think society is wrong to support this cruelty.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 03:44 pm
@Miller,
Someone give me a list of stuff that rashes can cause in present day swimming pools, especially chlorine zonked pools -

I had scarlet fever myself, was quarantined for two weeks (good radio, books):
all this stuff is fear mongering.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 04:12 pm
@Lash,
Lash, These are adult women, yet you are talking as if they are children. They have the equal rights that you have to express their identity as they see fit.

You are making the no true Scotsman fallacy when you say "no free person would choose".... I think you are ignoring what freedom actually means.

We are talking about denying women the freedom to cover themselves, because we don't respect them to make decisions for themselves.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 04:29 pm
This story really bothers me. It is illogical to prevent adult women from being to cover themselves. If we aren't going to let Muslim women to dress themselves, what else shouldn't they be allowed to do?

Answer me this Lash? Should Muslim women be allowed to vote (which is a much greater responsibility than choosing which clothes to wear).
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 04:29 pm
@maxdancona,
That's a reasonable argument. I've heard it before and considered it, but based on interviews with former Muslim women and my knowledge of what happens to women and girls when they step outside of so-called rules of that faith, I stand by my opinion.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 04:32 pm
@maxdancona,
They should feel safe exercising the same rights as everyone else. Sort of a silly question.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 05:54 pm
@Lash,
Well Lash, I don't think "interviews with former Muslim women" is a very good thing to base your opinions on. There are similar interviews with "former homosexuals" and "former abortionists" that are equally valuable (i.e. not valuable at all). These interviews are propaganda.

Could you talk to a real Muslim woman with respect, treating her as an equal?

I also question where you get your knowledge from. Have you made any real attempt to see things from a Muslim point of view (rather than just listening to propaganda from anti-Muslim media).

I am wondering what you think of this Muslim woman. Do you think you have more knowledge than she does?

Malala Yousafzai wrote:
”The tradition of narratives that hold up the medieval backwardness of abandoned countries and pivot invasions on liberating their hapless women is a strong one, but it is built on the historical edifice of colonial subjugation. A Western feminism that asks Muslim women to leave their traditions at the door is fundamentally disempowering.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:12 pm
@maxdancona,
I expressed interest in her autobiography, so one of my classroom parents donated six of them to my class in California for Literature Circles. She's a smart girl/ young woman and her story and insights are universally applicable; however, I think when people are born into fucked up realities, it is rare that they recognize it- and much rarer that a child recognizes it.

Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:18 pm
Some Muslim women take issue with female covering.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/muslim-woman-veil-hijab

More to the point: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/islamic-state-stones-five-women-to-death-for-not-wearing-the-veil

If you witness women murdered for not covering as a young woman, you can adopt any bullshit narrative in the world to enable you to live in your society. Nobody really wants to live in a black sack.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:23 pm
@Lash,
Lash, I couldn't disagree with you more.

It is troubling that White women tell women of color that their realities are "fucked up". Given the sad history of White people wiping out indigenous cultures on several continents... I don't think you have any right.

Malala is right, she has an experience and knowledge that you have never had. You are wrong. I hope that you can open your mind and heart to hear what Muslim women, like Malala, are saying.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:28 pm
@Lash,
Lash, do you understand what propaganda is?

You may know this, I was a fundamentalist Christian when I was younger. They produced the exact same videos about homosexuals... showing "ex-homosexuals" speaking out about the homosexual lifestyle.

Even when I was devoutly religious, I was smart enough to see that this was one-sided propaganda. You can defame any group this way.

If you want to understand what it is like to be Jewish, talk to someone who is still Jewish. If you want to understand what it is like to be homosexual, talk to someone who is still homosexual. It you want to know what it is like be be Muslim, talk to someone who is still Muslim. All of these groups have faced persecution. And all of these groups have had people who have rejected the hateful propaganda and worked for understanding and respect.

People have defamed Jews and homosexuals using the same propaganda that you are using to defame Muslims.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:28 pm
@maxdancona,
I'm also telling white women that any reality that demands they cover their body to prevent men from sinning - and they are to blame when they're raped is bullshit. You agree that girls should be stoned to death when daddy rapes them?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 06:33 pm
@Lash,
You are putting out your racist stereotypes of Jews based on what their Bible says. Most Jews don't think that stoning girls is acceptable (even though it still happens occasionally).

I don't see how this has anything to do with Jewish women who want to follow their cultural traditions that include dressing modestly.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:28 pm
@maxdancona,
You seem to have suffered some sort of adverse brain event. We were talking about the thread topic.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/opinions/why-women-stoned-to-death-2015/

The women talk.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:32 pm
@Lash,
I didn't have any sort of adverse brain event. Let me make my point very clearly. I am pointing out that your anti-Muslim logic works the same way as the antisemitic logic that other people have. What you are displaying is racial prejudice, and not much different than the prejudice faced by many other ethnic groups.

You are cherry picking stories to support your pre-existing racial prejudice. And you are completely ignoring the voices of very intelligent and brave Muslim women who are standing up for their religion and human rights at the same time.

If you only listen to the hatred against these women, and never listen to these women themselves... you will never be able to hear their voices or respect them as human beings.

Malala is a very intelligent young Muslim woman who has the knowledge and wisdom gained from living graciously in two cultures. You should listen to her.


Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:39 pm
@maxdancona,
I think you may have gone off the deep end. I hate women being forced to hide their bodies, and I hate a religion that decrees death to raped women and girls.

Find another one with those precepts and I'll hate that one too.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Jun, 2016 07:53 pm
@Lash,
Do you hate women being forced to show their bodies?

These women, in the original story, just want to be given a choice.
 

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