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School Authority

 
 
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 01:32 am
I know the laws have been slightly adjusted for an educational settings in both the public and private levels, but is there any regulations on how far school authority power may extend?

For example, is it kosher for a school in either the public or private sector to prohibit one student from socializing with another via all means including but not limited to:

Verbal communications
Chatrooms
E-mails
Private Messages
Phonecall
Note passing
Talking via middleperson(s)
Or even being in the same building unless under adult supervision.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 883 • Replies: 12
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 04:25 am
Re: School Authority
ghettoaznpinoy wrote:
I know the laws have been slightly adjusted for an educational settings in both the public and private levels, but is there any regulations on how far school authority power may extend?

For example, is it kosher for a school in either the public or private sector to prohibit one student from socializing with another via all means including but not limited to:

Verbal communications
Chatrooms
E-mails
Private Messages
Phonecall
Note passing
Talking via middleperson(s)
Or even being in the same building unless under adult supervision.


Hi ghettoaznpinoy:

The First Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America provides the following:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The First Amendment applies to the United States Congress. However, the First Amendment is made applicable to the States via the Fourteenth Amendment.

The Fourteenth Amendment provides in part:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Schools that receive public funding are "government actors" and must comply with the limitations placed on their power by the Constitution.

Generally, all people have the right of association and freedom of speech. However, not all rights are absolute. The Constitution neither protects all associations nor all speech. For instance, it is constitutional for the law to penalize you for associating (conspiring) with others for the purpose of committing a crime; it is constitutional for the law to penalize you for speech that is found to be defamatory.

Disruptive or abusive conduct is not conducive to a healthy and safe learning environment. Schools have compelling interests in providing a safe place of learning and in protecting students who are being victimized by other students.

A school may or may not prohibit students from "socializing" and "communicating" with other students depending on the circumstances.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 04:44 am
Findlaw
Government as Educator

Quote:
While the Court had previously made clear that students in public schools were entitled to some constitutional protection 118 and that minors generally were not outside the range of constitutional protection, 119 its first attempt to establish standards of First Amendment expression guarantees against curtailment by school authorities came in Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District. 120

There, high school principals had banned the wearing of black armbands by students in school as a symbol of protest against United States actions in Viet Nam. Reversing the refusal of lower courts to reinstate students who had been suspended for violating the ban, the Court set out the balance to be drawn.

''First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the school house gate. . . .

On the other hand, the Court has repeatedly emphasized the need for affirming the comprehensive authority of the States and of school officials, consistent with fundamental constitutional safeguards, to prescribe and control conduct in the schools.'' 121 Restriction on expression by school authorities is only permissible to prevent disruption of educational discipline.''

In order for the State in the person of school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expression of opinion, it must be able to show that its action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint. Certainly where there is no finding and no showing that engaging in the forbidden conduct would 'materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school,' the prohibition cannot be sustained.'' 122
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 05:15 am
We got one of those automated phone messages yesterday from the principal of our daughter-cubs
high school full of the usual microscopic details about discipline, dress code, drop off rules etc, and I mentioned to squinney that we NEVER get information about anything academic in these calls....just discipline. If the schools would spend just a tinch of their time concerning themselves with educating our cubs rather than making sure they weren't wearing tank tops or baseball caps maybe we could turn out some better educated children, instead of well groomed stepford cubs. Set the wayback machine for 1954..........
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 05:16 am
ghettoaznpinoy- Welcome to A2K! Very Happy

Quote:
For example, is it kosher for a school in either the public or private sector to prohibit one student from socializing with another via all means including but not limited to:


OK, sho what's the story? It sounds like one kid has been causing problems for another, so the school authorities issued an edict that was tantamount to a restraining order.

Schools relate to children in in loco parentis. I think that it would be important for us to know what you have left out, before we could give you a considered opinion.
0 Replies
 
ghettoaznpinoy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 11:14 am
Here's an excerpt from the discipline section.

Quote:

SOCIALING - may have no communication with "socialed" friend. This includes phone calls, letters, e-mail, chatrooms or notes, nor can the two be in the same vincinity.


Socialing is used:

1) When two or more people usually cause problems when in that group. If you disband them, it might cut down on problems.

2) Before a 'tight knit' relationship is developed. The school has a 6" rule. That all males and females must be at least 6" from each other, except in certain situations (CPR, drama, etc.)

3) Used to break down really close friendships to 'encourage' making more friends with others.

Heh, sounds funny, but I think only #1 makes sense. #2 seems kind of understandable, and #3 is whacked out.

Appearantly, these rules don't stop in school boundaries. A boy and a girl were socialed for making out at an airport. They were 'socialed' for a month.

The reason I'm so curious on this matter is because I was socialed from another good friend of mind. Appearantly, we had set a fire in the school auditorium and gym so we somehow earned a reputation as problem kids when we were together. (No evidence of a fire ever existed in those two building while we were in attendance.)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 11:21 am
socialing - interesting use of language. Is this in a non-public school?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 11:34 am
The only reference on the internet (I may need to try with other word combinations) I can find right now to "socialed" in conjunction with school, is here :

obi school link

Quote:
What kinds of discipline are used with students at OBI?
Minor school infractions will earn a student an after-school detention. Teachers and deans may also assign essays to students. We do use limited corporal punishment in some instances, but only the school principal, Dean of Girls and Dean of Boys are allowed to administer this punishment, in the presence of witnesses, and no more than two per day. A common form of discipline is the assigning of extra work duties to young people who break the rules. The consistency and predictability of rules is a major reason many of our students turn their behavior patterns around and experience success.
Students may also be "campused" for the evening. This means they cannot go to "free time" or to the computer lab that night.

Boys and girls can also be "social campused" from one another in cases of inappropriate behavior. Students who are "socialed" can have no form of contact with each other for a specified number of days.

Oneida students who are suspended on campus are required to work during the school day. Suspensions may last anywhere from one to ten days. An average suspension is three days.

Boys generally work on the farm, yard crew or by doing supervised jobs on campus. Girls may be assigned to the greenhouses or the kitchen area.


Seems like this might be part of a specific school contract.
0 Replies
 
moondoggy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 11:42 am
and i spose "socialed" means no heavy petting?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Aug, 2004 11:45 am
Found another couple of reference. Looks like "socialed" is terminology used at non-accredited Christian schools and colleges in the U.S.

link

Quote:
We would hear about the rules from Rita from time to time when we would call or visit, (you must wear hose all the time,
no wet hair in public, boys and girls in seperate elevators, no open-toed shoes, your 'socialed' (i.e. grounded) for a
week, and on and on) from her and from her campus friends, but we failed to see how the rules were chipping away at her
and her faith.


It would seem these unaccredited, privately-funded schools are not bound by the Constitution.

Are you at one of these schools, ghettoaznpinoy ?
0 Replies
 
ghettoaznpinoy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 08:56 am
I was at a school like that.

Let's just say I didn't come in good terms with the superintendent. She had built up a dependancy for students with technical skills. (Oh wow, free labor!)

///EDIT

read that article in depth

Quote:

Every time a rule is violated in some indirect way, it seems a new rule is established to cover a new possibility.


THAT IS SO TRUE!
I look at the current handbook for this school, and there are at least 4 new rules that I know were a direct result from me.

Laughing
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 09:08 am
moondoggy wrote:
and i spose "socialed" means no heavy petting?


and in your case no scratches behind the ears or belly rubs...
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:32 am
Since you were at one of those unaccredited schools, they were/are pretty free to decide what the rules were/are. Scary reading.
0 Replies
 
 

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