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Wonder where all the jobs went?

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 04:50 pm
Customer call center jobs
exported from U.S. to India


By MICHAEL GOLDSTEIN
SPECIAL TO THE DAILY NEWS


Overseas connection: Workers in India field calls for such U.S. companies as GE, Citigroup, IBM and Ford.

Calls to toll-free customer service numbers at such New York companies as American Express, GE Capital or Citigroup are increasingly likely to wind up in India.Call centers - customer service operators and telemarketers who interrupt dinner with once-in-a-lifetime offers - are a $100 billion business, according to PriceWaterhouseCoopers, and much of that is going abroad. Companies like GE, Oracle, British Airways, Conseco, IBM, McKinsey, Ford, Citigroup and Microsoft are outsourcing thousands of U.S. jobs to India, attracted by an educated workforce with 250 million English speakers and lower costs."Over the next 15 years, 3.3 million services industry jobs and $136 billion in wages will move offshore to countries like India, Russia, China, and the Philippines," Forrester Research said in a report. Ireland has become another major destination.

http://c1.zedo.com/ads2/d/3853/255/167/119/29/i0.html?e=i;s=12;z=0.5356863359170512

One-Dimensional Growth

Since 1998 the United States has lost 11 percent of its manufacturing jobs—and the much vaunted productivity gains of the digital revolution seem to have disappeared. We need an industrial policy that produces real growth
 
by David Friedman
E ven before the collapse of the stock market and the recession of 2001 dispelled the illusion that we had escaped the business cycle, there were reasons to doubt that America was truly experiencing the miraculous rebirth that some people claimed it was. Although productivity, after years of stagnation, did increase during the boom years of the past decade, even at its late-1990s peak the economy did not produce jobs any faster or for a longer period than previous expansions had. In the ten years 1993 to 2002 the U.S. economy created barely more jobs than in the previous ten years, when the working-age population was smaller. Moreover, job growth in the nineties was strikingly uneven across industries. Since 1998, in fact, America has shed 11 percent of its relatively well-paying manufacturing jobs, the second worst rate of job loss in the past fifty years.

IMO the present economic malaise will continue and in all likelihood become worse unless the loss of jobs is addressed. Can our standard of living be maintained if it is not? What is your opinion and what if anything can be done?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,532 • Replies: 20
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 04:53 pm
We evolve. india's programmers will grow stronger. We'll continue to innovate.

I'm always suprised at alarmists in the US. The economy isn't great but there is hardly any cause for alarm. The countries that some people think are taking our jobs are almost always much worse off than we are.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 05:08 pm
craven says
Quote:
The countries that some people think are taking our jobs are almost always much worse off than we are.


I will be very hard hearted about it. My interest first and foremost is the economic well being of the people of the US. The people taking the jobs are worse off than us there is no doubt however, I am not keen to join them in poverty, and I doubt that anyone else is. I do not believe this can continue without it causing serious economic disruptions.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 05:37 pm
Rooting for the home team isn't wrong. But I do not share your worry. I think it can and will continue and we will evolve. Hard times are inevitable but I do not think this is a new phenomenon nor do I think it's ominous.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 05:44 pm
craven
I hope I am wrong not for myself since I am long past that point in my life but for the young and the families of this nation.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 06:21 pm
We've been losing jobs to low wage paying countries for years, is there a factor that makes any recent developments more worrisome?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 06:30 pm
craven
If you stop the bleeding upon getting cut there is no great problem but if you can't you will bleed to death.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 06:40 pm
I agree, we need to do many things to stay competitive. But we get cut all the time. Is there anything that indicates to you that this cut is worse?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 07:06 pm
this is sorta indirectly related. I read the following article at work today (hope i can make the link work), and your discussion here made me think of it. I wonder if the move in jobs is only part of the problem in the u.s. - i know the article made me wonder if people who said that the upcoming 'war' was an economic move might be on to something

globe and mail article on debt level of g7 countries
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2003 07:09 pm
just in case the link has a time-line built in - i've cut/pasted the last part of the article

Quote:
According to the OECD's estimate for 2002 and its projections for 2003 and 2004, Canada's debt will keep falling, while that of the United States, Germany and France will keep rising. While Canada keeps running government surpluses, the other three will run big deficits that will swell their debt.

By 2004, our debt will be down to 36 per cent of GDP, a full 10 percentage points below the United States's 46 per cent.

Those projections were made before Washington rolled out its latest tax cut proposals, which have prompted many analysts to increase their forecasts of U.S. deficits.

Canadians can now make an unusual boast: We're the only G7 country with twin surpluses, one in the government accounts and one in the current account, which tracks our financial dealings with the rest of the world.

We've been in that position since 1999, and if the OECD is right, we'll stay there until 2004. Since 1985, only two other countries have pulled off this feat -- Germany in 1989 and Japan for six consecutive years during its powerhouse days from 1987 through 1992 before it stumbled so badly.

The United States is running twin deficits, as it has for most of the past two decades. One consequence is that Canada's net debt to the rest of the world -- under 19 per cent of GDP at last count in 2001 -- is now below that of the United States. That's a huge change from the mid-1990s, when Canada's foreign debt was 43 per cent of GDP, while that of the United States was only 5 per cent.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2003 08:46 am
Craven
I have been watching the blue collar jobs get sucked out of this nation for twenty years and IMO it is reaching the critical stage. If it continues and there is no reason to believe it will not we will soon have two classes the rich and the poor. Typical third world economy.
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2003 08:56 am
This is called competetion.

Compete - if you are better, you will win in the long run.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2003 09:00 am
Man, I could really stir up a hornet's nest by mentioning H1-B visas. So I won't mention them.

Oops, too late.

Good topic.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jan, 2003 11:05 am
Gautam
If your cheaper you will win even faster.
0 Replies
 
neil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2003 01:42 pm
I find it hard to be optimistic. Much of the world is catching up with the USA and has passed us in some areas. Public education is aimed at the lower 1/3 of the students. The top 1/3 is inadequitly challanged, and likely to earn only a bit more than the lower third unless they get an education and motivation in spite of the education they are getting. All too many of us have bad attitudes in several areas. Typically employers can get fewer mistakes, more output, better utlization of their equipment, for less payroll costs in a country other than the USA. The USA likely has a few more good years, but we are heading toward 3d world status IMO. Neil
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2003 01:53 pm
Quote:
MANUFACTURING JOBS - EMPLOYMENT TRENDS & MISCONCEPTIONS
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were 14.6 million Americans employed in manufacturing in July, down from 15.3 million a year earlier, 16.4 million the year before that (2001) and 17.3 million the year before that (2000) -- a decline of 16 percent in 3 years. The recent peak for manufacturing employment occurred in March 1998 at 17.6 million -- about the same as it had been for the previous 15 years.
It is important to note; however, that other major countries have also seen declines in manufacturing employment. Between 1992 and 2002, U.S. manufacturing employment fell by 3.7%. In Britain, it fell 4.7%, in Japan it fell 5.2%, and in Germany it fell 6.1%.
But in spite of the downward trend lines, overall manufacturing is very high. Bruce Bartlett of the National Center for Policy Analysis writes "the Federal Reserve Board's industrial production index is up 5 percent since manufacturing employment peaked in 1998, and down just 5 percent from the index's peak in July 2000, despite a rather severe recession in the meantime."
"Looking at gross domestic product, real goods production as a share of real (inflation-adjusted) GDP is close to its all-time high. In the first quarter of 2003 - - the latest data available -- real goods production was 39.2 percent of real GDP. The highest annual figure ever recorded was 40 percent in 2000. By contrast, in the 'good old days' of the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, the U.S. actually produced far fewer goods as a share of total output. The highest figure recorded in the 1940s was 35.5 percent in 1943; the highest in the 1950s was 34.9 percent in 1953; and the highest in the 1960s was 33.6 percent in 1966. In short, manufacturing output is very healthy."
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2003 01:55 pm
Code:Bankruptcy Filings
Years ended June 30


Year Total Bankruptcy Non-Business Business
2003 1,650,279 1,613,097 37,182
2002 1,505,306 1,466,105 39,201
2001 1,386,606 1,349,471 37,135
2000 1,276,922 1,240,012 36,910

The good news is that business bankruptcies dropped from the prior period. That could be a good sign for the economy.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2003 02:35 pm
Husker
Statistics may show a rosy picture or at least not a dismal one. And the US may not have been hit any worse than some of the other countries. However, how bright is the job picture? It is great to be able to produce with two people that which ten were needed in the past. The question is where will the other eight find employment. To the person in the trenches, the American worker, the only concern is getting a paycheck.Statistics do not pay the bills
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Aug, 2003 02:51 pm
au1929 wrote:
Husker
Statistics may show a rosy picture or at least not a dismal one. And the US may not have been hit any worse than some of the other countries. However, how bright is the job picture? It is great to be able to produce with two people that which ten were needed in the past. The question is where will the other eight find employment. To the person in the trenches, the American worker, the only concern is getting a paycheck.Statistics do not pay the bills


I do happen to agree 100% with your comments. Where are the people who left the work force out of frustration (stayed at home with the kids)? Where are the people who ran out of unemployments?

I know for sure here - at the 2nd Harvest Foodbank -donations are way way down, supporting corporations are tightening belts and things are drying up just as the number of folks increase in needing emergency food. I think there is a window of time, for instance in my industry(electronics) it's about 4 to 6 months behind the economy.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2003 08:27 am
http://csmonitor.com/2003/0829/csmimg/cartoon.jpg


The economy is on the mend.
0 Replies
 
 

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