How can a good God allow suffering

@KingReef,

Oh, it wasn't a question. It was a statement. Thanks for the clarification.

Next I'll reiterate that whether God is or isn't what he's supposed to do or be, he's utterly unnecessary.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

I wouldn't say "utterly unnecessary." Millions of humans have faith in their God, and many pray to him on a daily basis. I see many ironies in this God. In sports, both teams pray to God for a win. That probably happens in wars too!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

You're right. Since most people are religious Gods are necessary in that regard. I don't think KingReef was referring to that in regard to what God is or isn't supposed to be or do, however. Most religious people do not believe in the Christian God. If he had never come up people would have other gods to believe in.

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@InfraBlue,

Gods have existed long before the Christian god was created. There are thousands of gods being observed today. Rather than trying to pick the right god, I decided being an atheist was easier. It doesn't matter which god one wishes to serve. Being a good human being who treats everyone with respect and dignity is the key to a good life on earth.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Being a good human being who treats everyone with respect and dignity is the key to a good life on earth.

Does that include going out of your way to mock everyone's God(s) as non-existent delusions at every opportunity?

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@Leadfoot,

I'm allowed my opinion about gods as well as those who believe in their god. It's called "the freedom of speech" under the "freedom of religion" clause. In my "humble" opinion, religion is an accident of birth. If one is born in Asia, they are more likely to follow the religions of Asia; Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Chinese folk religion, and Shintoism. If they are born in a western country, they are more likely to follow the Christian god with its many religious branches.

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@cicerone imposter,

Yeah, I think you’ve said that before.
I guess that makes you an Evangelical Atheist to all the poor deluded family brainwashed fools. Bless you for your selfless service, sir.

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@Leadfoot,

Call me any name you want. It's stupid. Respond to the topic if that's possible. Here: Try to learn something. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-raise-happy-cooperative-child/201601/name-calling

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@cicerone imposter,

You misunderstand me sir. There are not enough enlightened men like you around. If not for you and your fellow evangelicals, we would all be lost to those thousands of false gods you and you fellows have warned us about. And to think of those suffering the psychological religious abuse occurring in families everywhere without those of your keen insight to help. The mind boggles!

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@Leadfoot,

I'm not enlightened. Those are only my "humble" opinions. There is no evidence or nonexistence of any god. It's an "I don't know" issue, but from my personal perspective, I lean on the side of "no god(s)." I usually try to decide about our environment based on science and their findings. This planet is over 4.5 billion years old. The Christian god appeared only 2,000 years ago, while humans walked this planet for some 200,000 years. Why didn't god appear at the same time as humans? During that interim, many gods were created by different cultures in different countries. Too any gods for my blood.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Why humans have a need to believe in one religion or another is self-explanatory; it's in the human DNA.

If dualism is true your statement is not self explanatory and probably incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_dualism

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@brianjakub,

Dualism is no longer considered to be a tenable philossphical or psychological pov. Recent trends are towards 'embodied cognition' in which mental processes are inseparable from 'bodily processes'. You only need to consider the effect of drugs or brain injury to grasp that.
Furthermore, human genetics automatically thrusts humans into long term socialization processes during which they are genetically programmed to aquire language the basis for what we call 'thought' and thinking habits. Without thought via social language there there can be no concepts like 'time'. or 'purpose', or 'fate' , or 'sin' etc. The implication is that genetics predisposes humans to the social acquisition of linguistic epiphenomena like 'religious belief' which are transmitted through social forces, impinging on psychological processes.
So unless you want to play the religious catch-all game of 'God uses genetics'
the citation of your article is irrelevent.

4 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Nice reply, you sounded like a genuine person there.
Couple of questions about some of what you said.

Quote:

The Christian god appeared only 2,000 years ago, while humans walked this planet for some 200,000 years. Why didn't god appear at the same time as humans? During that interim, many gods were created by different cultures in different countries. Too any gods for my blood.

Where do you get these impressions of Christianity? According to their own story, the Christian God dealt directly with the first 'men' long before 2000 years ago.

Not trying to convince you of anything, what I want to know is how people reach their conclusions about theological matters. Is it from talking with friends, family, internet chatter, books, TV evangelists, etc.

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@fresco,

Well stated. We are socially and culturally influenced by what and who we become. A new born baby who is not touched by other humans become what this article states. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/born-love/201003/touching-empathy

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@fresco,

Quote:

Dualism is no longer considered to be a tenable philossphical or psychological pov. Recent trends are towards 'embodied cognition' in which mental processes are inseparable from 'bodily processes'. You only need to consider the effect of drugs or brain injury to grasp that.

Then applying this for example to the SCOTUS candidate, whether or not the accusations are true, we should not hold him responsible for sexual assault because his brain processes were influenced by drugs and the adolescent emergence of hormones.

TL/DR: The poor guy was a victim of his brain chemistry and not responsible for his actions. He’s just a 'clockwork orange', as are we all.

Is that how your non-dualistic POV works?

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Then applying this for example to the SCOTUS candidate, whether or not the accusations are true, we should not hold him responsible for sexual assault because his brain processes were influenced by drugs and the adolescent emergence of hormones.

That's about the most moronic statement on able2know I've seen in a very long time. That's the reason why Bill Cosby in now in prison.

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@cicerone imposter,

Your keen insight into my meaning continues to amaze me.

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@Leadfoot,

Non dualism does not equate to determinism. Cognition in terms of 'thought processes is an emergent system, as too are 'social processes'. That means there is no 1-1 isomorphism between levels of system operation. All we can say is that biological processes are necessary but not sufficient to describe 'higher level' processes.
An example of the complexity of interaction of these levels was described by Merleau-Ponty who reported the case of a brain damaged WW1 war veteran who was 'unable to salute when asked', but immediately saluted when an officer entered the room. Similar examples of the body/cognition/socialization linkage is demonstrated by stroke victims who are unable to name an object like a comb but say 'I don't know what you call it but you comb your hair with it'.

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@fresco,

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. We, sometimes, have to read through a whole book to get these perspectives.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Thanks.
(The reading is done in preparation of philosophy papers which my local group takes turns to present).

1 Reply

How can a good God allow suffering

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