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How to stop prostitution

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 08:56 am
Saab, Have you taken the time to listen to the women who choose to enter the profession of prostitution? They are pointing out that if prostitution is decriminalized that the women will be safer, better off and have more legal rights.

Listen to this woman... particularly her points about New Zealand. The New Zealand laws are unique in that they were written with input by sex workers.





maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 09:55 am
@maxdancona,
This woman explains why the so called "Nordic" model, where buying sex is illegal but selling it isn't, hurts sex workers.

There is no evidence that this idea decreases the amount of prostitution. What it does is make it harder for the sex worker to be safe.

When she works, she arranges a meeting with her client. She wants to be with other sex workers for protection. She wants to block unlisted numbers so she has recourse if the client mistreats her, and she wants the clients name. She also wants time to negotiate a deal that is good for her, and to assess the safety of the situation to make sure she is not making a bad decision.

If the buying sex is illegal she can't do this. Her clients won't be willing to give their name or number (they have to worry about stings). The clients don't want to linger outside... the have to worry about being seen meaning that she has to pull clients inside quickly to protect them. And these laws forbid sex workers from working together (under the brothel clause) meaning that they are forced to work alone in more secluded spaces.

This is why sex workers, and the organizations that advocate for them, strongly oppose these laws.

The way to help sex workers is to allow them to work in safer, more open situations where they can work together for safety and neither buyer or seller feel the need to be underground.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 10:01 am
@maxdancona,
I have already said that I think it should be legal.
It has been tried and it did not work out as well as it should have. Unfortunately the bordells are not controlled as well as they should be so criminal people again could start taking advantage of women.

Found an article about prostitution in Europe.
There are probably 500 000 prostitutes in Europe and 95% do not want to be in this situration.
Hardly anyone can get out of the situation because of the pimps who take their money and threatens them and their families.
So the woman you want me to listen to is one representativ out of 5%. Not very convinsing.
So far i have not heard one single word from your being against pedophiles taking advantage of young women and men and children.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 10:04 am
@saab,
I also pointed out that the Swedish model is not good. The buyer can be blackmailed and anyone can maintain that a person has bought sex. Then this man is in real trouble till it is cleared up.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 10:13 am
@saab,
Sounds like you are assembling an army of straw men.

Just because work is legal does not negate the validity of child labor laws.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 10:21 am
@saab,
Yes, I want you to listen to this woman.

She is a sex worker. She is also an activist working for the rights of sex workers and represents lots of women and men in the sex industry around the world.

She works specifically with this organization which is doing good work... one current issue of theirs is the use of condoms by law enforcement as evidence of solicitation (which obviously has bad consequences).

http://redumbrellaproject.org

Yes, you have heard about me being against pedophiles. You can go back and read it again if you want, or I will reiterate it again. I am against pedophiles, slavery and sex trafficking. I am also against prison labor and child labor in the textile, electronic manufacturing and fishing industries as well (which doesn't mean that I am against shirts, smartphones or tilapia).

I believe that prostitution between consenting adults should be safe and legal (just like any consensual sexual act). And I believe that sex workers should be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other profession.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2016 10:24 am
@saab,
I am curious then. If you agree that prostitution should be legal, what are we arguing about?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:05 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am curious then. If you agree that prostitution should be legal, what are we arguing about?



That means there are many uncertain aspects about it that need both of you to work out solutions.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:43 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
There are probably 500 000 prostitutes in Europe and 95% do not want to be in this situration.
We don't have concrete figures for Germany, but here between 200,000 and 400,000 are working as prostitutes, including "part-time".
Most are working in private, rented flats, self-employed. (And pay "flat rate tax" according to the so-called "Düsseldorf model".)
Just one percent is employed by brothels, all the others have to have health insures by their own. And look for pensions themselves [just 50% have an old-age-insurance]).

The problem certainly is within in sector of illegal prostitution.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 01:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Googled the amount.
In Swweden 7.5% men between 18 and65 have sometime in their life bought sex. This is less than other coutries.
There are about 200 - 250 prostituts working from the street. The low amount is because of Internet. What suprised me is there are more male than female prostituts in Sweden.
Taken from an artikel by Länstyrelsen 13th of march 2015
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 02:33 am
@saab,
The only quantitative-empiric study about how many men go to prostitutes in Germany is more than 20 years old: about 18% of all (adult) males went to prostitutes in Germany in the 80's. Regularly. (Don't remember the number of those, who went there occasionally or only once.)
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 09:02 am
@saab,
Quote:
In Swweden 7.5% men between 18 and65 have sometime in their life bought sex. This is less than other coutries.


Why is this statistic important? Are you worried that prostitution might sully the reputation of Swedish men?

The question should be how to protect the rights and safety of the sex workers involved.

The groups representing sex workers say that the anti-prostitution laws in Sweeden force them to work alone and make it harder for them to screen their clients. This puts them in greater risk of harm.

You should listen to what they have to say. The video I posted is a pretty good starting point if you are willing to listen to the point of view of the women involved.


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 09:07 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Why is this statistic important?
I'm not saying that it was important. But is was a response to what I wrote, so I appreciated it.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 11:05 am
@maxdancona,
I have already pointed out that things did go wrong after buying sex in Sweden became illegal
I have pointed out what a terrible life they have, that they are forced to do this kind of work no matter where they live.
I have pointed out the criminality behind prostitution.

And you mostly talk about consensual sex - as if these women and men enjoy this kind of life.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:13 pm
@saab,
What I said was prostitution was common after wars. That was the only way they were able to eat and have shelter. No judgement made.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:16 pm
@saab,
Quote:
And you mostly talk about consensual sex - as if these women and men enjoy this kind of life.


Do you and I disagree on the definition of the word "consensual"?

Some prostitutes enjoy their job and their lifestyle. How do I know this? Because they will tell you if they listen (have you listened to the video yet?). Some people in other professions hate their job (which I know for the same reason).

Sex worker advocates point out that sex workers are individuals. Some of them like their job, some of them hate it. Many of them choose to do sex work because they can make a profit. Are you really going to say that no prostitutes enjoy their work... or that people in other professions don't hate their work? Treating sex workers as some monolithic group without individual ideas is patronizing them.

No one should be forced into prostitution. You and I and the sex workers advocates all agree with this.

The question is whether women or men should have the right to choose this line of work if they feel it benefits them.


0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I know you did not judge.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2016 12:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If a woman chooses prostitution as a profession, and it is not a time of war or need, do you judge her?

What about a woman who has other options but likes the money she makes as a prostitute and finds the hours good? Do you judge her?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:59 pm
@maxdancona,
No. I just stated facts about war and prostitution. I don't judge the women or men that participate whether it's war time or not. What difference will it make? NONE. It's none of my business.
0 Replies
 
NightFlirt
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2019 04:12 pm
@peacecrusader888,
Your logic is flawed, and here is why (countering each point in order)
1) If someone's religion believes in polygamy, (and many do) how is it a sin? The 10 commandments were created by man, not by any god.
2)Everyone is different, even clones will develop into different people given the same stimuli.
3) You can get an STD from anyone, in fact 2/3 of the world's population has Herpes. AIDS? people have gotten it from blood transfusions in hospitals!
4) The wife/girlfriend may be frigid and families may be non-existent.
5) A good sex worker will always stroke your ego, she's charging by the hour in most cases, Men with stamina means more money in my pocket.
6)Domestic violence against women exists outside of the sex industry as well. If we give sex workers legal rights then we can report abusive customers and prevent them from abusing someone else, for a time at least.

There will always be a demand for the sex workers, we provide services that someone's partner either cannot or will not do. You may not agree with the choice those of us who have not been forced to be in this line of work, but keep in mind that we do it of our own Free Will.
 

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