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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 07:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
European free trade area could be UK's best Brexit option, says judge
Quote:
Britain could retain access to the European single market and considerably more national sovereignty if it joins the European Free Trade Association (Efta), the president of the body’s court has said.

In an interview with the Guardian, Carl Baudenbacher urged Britain to study the advantages of joining Efta seriously. Baudenbacher’s private secretary has submitted a 19-page paper to the Cabinet Office, setting out how an updated version of Efta could be “a natural home for the UK post-Brexit”.

Speaking from Luxembourg, Baudenbacher said the Efta court over which he presides was quick, flexible, would allow the UK to leave the European customs union and preserve the sovereignty of UK law. It would also give the UK business access to the single market.

Efta currently consists of Norway, Lichtenstein, Switzerland and Iceland. Together with the EU member states they form a trading zone called the European Economic Area.
Blickers
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 07:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote article:
Quote:
Efta currently consists of Norway, Lichtenstein, Switzerland and Iceland. Together with the EU member states they form a trading zone called the European Economic Area.

Interestingly, all Northern and Western European nations.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 11:06 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Interestingly, all Northern and Western European nations.
Eh, what do you mean by that response? It's actually all former and present EU (EEC) and EFTA countries
http://i68.tinypic.com/11sm4pv.jpghttp://i68.tinypic.com/fx6woz.jpg
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 10:48 pm
Of the discussions I've read of Europeans unhappy with the EU, much of it is from Northwestern Europeans who think they are paying for Southern Europeans. Liechtenstein is an extremely wealthy principality in Central Western Europe, the rest are Northwest European countries. If the UK joins the EFTA, they get to have access to the European market without being subject to bailing out, (as the disgruntled UK partisans see it), the Southern and Eastern Europeans. This might satisfy the nationalistic desires of the pro-Brexit people in the UK while keeping the UK involved in the European economy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 11:03 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
The free movement of persons is one of the core rights guaranteed in the European Economic Area (EEA), the extended Internal Market which unites all the EU Member States and three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It is perhaps the most important right for individuals, as it gives citizens of the 31 EEA countries the opportunity to live, work, establish business and study in any of these countries.
Source
I'd thought that "immigration" and free movement was one of the main points.

Some Brexit-ministers are now suggesting that the UK could pay EU for access to single market
Builder
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 08:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Looks like blackmail to me, Walter.

If the EU wants to play this game, then they should have no access to any trade through Britain whatsoever.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 11:24 pm
@Builder,
I'm not sure if the EU will accept these proposals, but perhaps they'll do, after article 50 is triggered.
Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 11:51 pm
@Builder,
Quote Builder:
Quote:
If the EU wants to play this game, then they should have no access to any trade through Britain whatsoever.

Nobody's denying Britain the right to trade with EU countries. EU countries trade with non-EU countries all the time. When-or if-the UK leaves the EU, their trading status will be that of a non-EU country and the trade the UK undertakes with EU nations will be on that basis. Unless, of course, the EU joins the EFTA and therefore gains the rights that they have, including free access to the EU market.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 12:17 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Nobody's denying Britain the right to trade with EU countries. EU countries trade with non-EU countries all the time.
Indeed - that will be part of the negotiations after article 50 is triggered.

Blickers wrote:
Unless, of course, the EU joins the EFTA and therefore gains the rights that they have, including free access to the EU market.
Why should the EU join EFTA? The European Economic Area (EEA)'s membership is open to member states of either the European Union (EU) or European Free Trade Association (EFTA).
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 06:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Not just my opinion ...
The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson said:
Quote:
“That is obviously something that David Davis is considering but it doesn’t mean a decision has been taken … I am not going to get involved in the minutiae of our negotiating position before we trigger article 50.”
Sources and more:
Boris Johnson plays down prospect of EU payments after Brexit
Brexit: Boris Johnson dismisses paying EU ‘large sums’ of money in return for market access
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 10:15 am
The Government's challenge against the High Court ruling that parliamentary approval is required to start the process of leaving the European Union will be hard tomorrow.

A good summary: Everything you need to know about the Supreme Court judgment on Brexit
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 10:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Walter:
Quote:
Why should the EU join EFTA? The European Economic Area (EEA)'s membership is open to member states of either the European Union (EU) or European Free Trade Association (EFTA).

Oops. I meant if the UK joins the EFTA and gains free trade access to the EU member nations that way.
Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 10:27 am
Quote:
Quote:
Brexit: Boris Johnson dismisses paying EU ‘large sums’ of money in return for market access

Looks like the game then is to brand how much constitutes "large". As in, "Heck, if you figure how much we're getting out of this deal, that money ain't nothin' ".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 10:51 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
I meant if the UK joins the EFTA and gains free trade access to the EU member nations that way.
I doubt that - as quoted and sourced before (e.g. free movement of persons as one of the principles).
Blickers
 
  1  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 11:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Depends if you think the European immigrants were the main issue of the Brexit or the supremacy of the EU courts over UK issues and monetary bailouts of the Southern and Eastern countries were the main issue. A deal where the UK continues to take in immigrants from poorer EU countries but still has most of its court issues settled in UK courts might well be quite attractive to many Brexit supporters. Especially since, economically speaking, the bloom is increasingly going off the Brexit rose.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 4 Dec, 2016 11:47 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Depends if you think the European immigrants were the main issue of the Brexit or the supremacy of the EU courts over UK issues and monetary bailouts of the Southern and Eastern countries were the main issue.
Well, the immigration issue was the main topic for the Brexit.
The "supremacy of the EU courts over UK issues and monetary bailouts of the Southern and Eastern countries" is somehow wrongly worded since nothing about this has been to the court(s) - it's part of the various EU.treaties and not just related/focused to the "Southern and Eastern countries". (Western and Northern countries often complain about the 'UK-bonus' - but that is part of the treaty as well.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 5 Dec, 2016 06:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Norway tells Britain: no Brexit 'silver bullet' over single market access
Quote:
Britain must understand that there is no “silver bullet” over Brexit that would permit single market access without paying into the EU and being bound by some of its rules, Norway’s foreign minister has warned ahead of a meeting in London.

Børge Brende, who was due to meet his UK counterpart, Boris Johnson, on Monday, as well as the Brexit secretary, David Davis, and the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, said his country’s model of access to the single market without being part of the EU was seen there as a success.

This did not mean it would necessarily work as well for the UK, Brende told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“We were very clear that there is no silver bullet in this context,” he said. “Being a part of the single market, as we are, also means to implement all directives, and we are not in the room when these directives are decided on.

“But there has been a consensus around this in Norway that it is in our interest to be a part of the single market, and that is what we have to contribute. On top of this we also do funding for countries in the EU that are the new members, but also those that are facing the biggest challenges when it comes to development.

Asked if the single market choice facing Britain was the same – to have more control or to be richer – Brende said Norway’s access to the single market since 1992 “had served our country well”, with 70% of its exports going to the EU.

He said: “Formally, you’re right, that on the directives we have no formal say. That is part of the price that we are paying.”

Brende added: “We have also implemented all the four freedoms,” referring to the single market principles of the free movement across borders of goods, people, services and capital.

... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 6 Dec, 2016 05:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
UK will have under 18 months to negotiate deal, says EU's Brexit broker
Quote:
The European union’s chief Brexit negotiator has said Britain will have less than 18 months to negotiate its departure from the bloc and repeated that the Brexit deal it eventually ends up with must be inferior to EU membership.

But Michel Barnier did hold out the possibility of a “short transitional agreement” to cover the period between the UK’s exit and the start of its new relationship with the union, saying such a deal could be useful if the two sides have “a clear perspective” of what form that relationship would take.

“Time will be very short,” he told journalists in Brussels, pointing out that at the beginning of the article 50 Brexit process the European council will need time to define its stance and at the end, the council, the European parliament and the UK government will all have to approve the agreement.

“It’s clear that the actual negotiation period will be shorter than two years: the European council must set its guidelines at the beginning, and at the end the agreement must be approved by the council, the parliament and the UK government,” he said.

Barnier added: “All in all, there will be less than 18 months. If, as Theresa May has said, we receive notification by the end of Match, it is safe to say the negotiations could start a few weeks later and article 50 agreement would have to reached by October 2018.”
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:12 pm
The result of Italy's recent referendum may portend more tumult within the EU and the Eruozone. It increasingly appears to me that the EU will inexorably have to face the issue of the BREXIt in the context of these other, and apparently growing, internal dividsions.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 6 Dec, 2016 01:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Britain must understand that there is no “silver bullet” over Brexit that would permit single market access without paying into the EU and being bound by some of its rules, Norway’s foreign minister has warned ahead of a meeting in London.

<snip>
Brende added: “We have also implemented all the four freedoms,” referring to the single market principles of the free movement across borders of goods, people, services and capital.

... ... ...



pretty much defeats the purpose of the Brexit right there

I shouldn't be laughing, but I am.
 

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