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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Tue 22 Nov, 2016 10:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The value of the pound has dropped 15% since the day before the Brexit vote. Excellent chance many pro Brexit voters have had second thoughts.
roger
 
  3  
Tue 22 Nov, 2016 10:53 pm
@Kolyo,
I've no idea of the British voters mind, but I bet the Leave supporters would be wondering why they bothered with the formality of voting.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 01:27 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
IHS Markit’s index of economic optimism over the next 10 years dropped to minus 18.4 percent in November from minus 11.1 percent in August and minus 3.5 percent in July, it said on Tuesday. The survey asks people whether the U.K.’s prospects have gotten better, worse, or stayed the same as a result of the Brexit vote.

With the pound falling, one issue that may be worrying consumers is the outlook for inflation, which the Bank of England forecasts will accelerate through 2017, eating into real incomes. U.K. manufacturers expect to jack up prices in the coming months, the Confederation of British Industry said Tuesday.

In the short-term -- over the next six months -- the index was little changed, at minus 40.7 percent compared with minus 42.7 percent in August. While the economy has performed better than anticipated since the referendum, expanding 0.5 percent in the third quarter, Markit said the report shows that pessimists still outnumber optimists to a “significant extent.”

“The latest survey highlights how Brexit is expected to carry a higher than previously-thought cost in economic terms,” said Markit Chief Economist Chris Williamson. “On average, people have become considerably more pessimistic about the impact of the decision to leave the EU on the economy over the next decade.”
Source

The government will offer some sweeteners today, including a rise in the minimum wage, which might help distract attention from potentially explosive data exposing Brexit’s impact on the economy.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 08:59 am
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

Do you think that if parliament fails to make Brexit happen, after the referendum, the backlash from angry Leave supporters could propel UKIP to power?


now that the impact of the vote is becoming clearer, the backlash could tank UKIP - they lied to their supporters about the costs / benefits

but who knows. maybe they'll double down because they don't mind being lied to
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 05:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Not necessarily. I think the majority of Brexit folks didn't understand the consequences of leaving the union. Maybe, some changed their minds after learning that Brexit will end up costing everybody more money and jobs.


If 80% still felt like leaving the UK and chose to support UKIP because of it, that would translate to 40% support for UKIP, which is massive in a multiparty system.
Blickers
 
  3  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 07:13 pm
@Kolyo,
True, but going from Conservative or Labor over to the UKIP candidate for Parliament is a massive leap. UKIP has only one member of Parliament, the Conservatives have 329 and Labor 230. It's one thing to vote one way on a referendum, it's another to go all the way over to send your only representative to the government from a different party over that issue. That would be an unprecedented amount of party-switching, no precedent for anything close to that.
nimh
 
  2  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 09:13 pm
@Lash,
Meanwhile, here's the picture the British government itself is selling. Even they are acknowledging that Brexit will inflict heavy costs:

Quote:
The UK economy is "resilient" despite forecasts that government finances will be £122bn worse off than previously expected by 2020, the chancellor said. In his Autumn Statement Philip Hammond said growth predictions had been cut as a result of the Brexit vote.

0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Wed 23 Nov, 2016 09:28 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

UKIP has only one member of Parliament, the Conservatives have 329 and Labor 230. It's one thing to vote one way on a referendum, it's another to go all the way over to send your only representative to the government from a different party over that issue. That would be an unprecedented amount of party-switching, no precedent for anything close to that.


Good point. I can't think of anything that comes close to the swing I am suggesting. Still, I hope it's a moot point and parliament votes for Brexit. I think Brits were stupid to vote Leave, but they voted and parliament should honor it. In the next few years I think Britain, France and Germany will find they have a lot in common and will pursue closer union despite Brexit. Can't say just why, but I just ... have this feeling they will.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Thu 24 Nov, 2016 01:01 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
and Labor 230.

Sorry to be picky, but it's the Labour Party.
Blickers
 
  1  
Thu 24 Nov, 2016 09:20 pm
@contrex,
I only have the capacity to deal with one version of the language, if that. To equalize things, feel free to refer to the September holiday as Labour Day.
Builder
 
  0  
Sun 27 Nov, 2016 12:08 am
@Blickers,
In Australia, we still call it labour, but the political party is called the Labor party, clearly because hard work is totally alien to their lives.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 28 Nov, 2016 06:56 am
Interestingly - but not surprisingly in my opinion - only now it has been "discovered" that the UK is a member of the European Economic Area (EEA) agreement (a single market of EU states and three non-members: Iceland, Lichtenstein and Norway) as well.
Trigger warning: is article 127 the new article 50?

And perhaps the EFTA Court (the court of the European Economic Area [EEA]) will be noticed, too, ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:24 pm
EU negotiators outrank UK ministers in Brexit 'power list
Quote:
Britain may have voted to leave the European Union, but its short-term fate still lies predominantly in the hands of foreigners, according to a new Brexit “power list” that attempts to measure who wields the most clout in the tricky negotiations to come.

Theresa May and Germany’s Angela Merkel jointly share top spot in the Brexit50 ranking – drawn up by a panel of independent experts – as befits their respective roles as Britain and Europe’s most powerful politicians.

Yet key UK ministers including Boris Johnson and Liam Fox trail far behind lesser-known officials whose influence over the process is deemed likely to be far more influential.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, and Didier Seeuws, a Belgian diplomat placed in charge of the European council’s “Brexit taskforce”, are the highest ranked non-politicians, in fourth and 11th places, while the UK foreign secretary and international trade secretary languish in 21st and 19th spots respectively. As Brussels bureaucrats are fond of observing, process is power.

... ... ...


Full list: Top 50 influencers on Brexit
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

EU negotiators outrank UK ministers in Brexit 'power list
Quote:
Britain may have voted to leave the European Union, but its short-term fate still lies predominantly in the hands of foreigners,

Yet key UK ministers including Boris Johnson and Liam Fox trail far behind lesser-known officials whose influence over the process is deemed likely to be far more influential.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, and Didier Seeuws, a Belgian diplomat placed in charge of the European council’s “Brexit taskforce”, are the highest ranked non-politicians, in fourth and 11th places, while the UK foreign secretary and international trade secretary languish in 21st and 19th spots respectively. As Brussels bureaucrats are fond of observing, process is power.

... ... ...




I believe this statement encapsulates the chief weakness of today's European Union, and it is one that, uncorrected, could bring the whole structure down in the next decade or so. Nothing at all to brag about there.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:33 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe this statement encapsulates the chief weakness of today's European Union, and it is one that, uncorrected, could bring the whole structure down in the next decade or so.
Where exactly do you see a weakness of today's European Union in that statement?

To give another quote from the above link:
Quote:
While the methodology of the 18-strong panel of international experts who drew up the list for the European media network EurActiv will be open to challenge, the process of voting on which figures to include has underlined how much leverage over the terms of Brexit clearly lies across the channel.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:37 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Here,

"As Brussels bureaucrats are fond of observing, process is power."

This is precisely the attitude and driving force behind the advocacy of many in the UK for the Brexit. Similar symptoms are visible in France, Italy , Poland, Hungary and perhaps other EU nations.

Frankly I thought the problem here was quite obvious.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:41 pm
@georgeob1,
I do believe that the Brexit vote was a referendum in the UK and not in other EU-countries.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:44 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Indeed it was: I never inferred otherwise. However there are indeed signs of discord in the other nations I cited. That was the obvious point of my post.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:47 pm
@georgeob1,
Okay
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 01:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
By the way, Walter, I take no pleasure or satisfaction in that. As you may have noted, I have long seen that sort of thing as the leading threat to the otherwise truly amazing, by modern historical standards, success of the EU (and its predecessors) .
0 Replies
 
 

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