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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 1 Oct, 2016 06:33 pm
@saab,
I've been to Gibraltar a couple of times, and wondered how Brexit could impact it. I don't think the Brits gave it much thought.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2016/03/gibraltar-impact-brexit
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 1 Oct, 2016 11:58 pm
Most media report by now what PM will tell today and what others will tell later.
Seems to become a very soft Brexit.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  2  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 01:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
You are right - the Brits did not give Gibraltar much thought.
Nor were they well informed about the consequences of an exit.
Politicians have for years ignored the common person´s feelings regarding EU and that not only in UK.
There is certain more or less aggresive parties and people against EU, some going as far as calling it EUDSSR. They want out.
On the other hand we have the almost uncritical EU people who think that EU will lead to heaven on earth.
In between is the great majority, which is critical to EU, but as a rule want to stay and do not want an exit.
Before Brexit there was a certain mistrust in EU in Sweden and Denmark, which right after Brexit changed to greater trust in EU.
8th of June 2016 42% of the Danes wanted an election regarding EU
4th of July 2016 32% wanted Denmark out of EU.
In May 2016 49% of the Swedes found EU ok and 23% were against EU.
In November 2015 the OK went down 20% from 59% to 39% and the ones being more negative went up 11% to 52%
All of this can tip very easy in any direction
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 03:28 am
Theresa May has ended weeks of speculation and revealed that she will launch formal Brexit talks with EU leaders before the end of March 2017.
May has also promised a "Great Repeal Bill."
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 04:01 am
In EU´s wineceller there are about 42 000 bottles of wine and good alcohol.
”Brexit divorce lawyers eye up EU’s wine list” and came up with that UK should get about 5000 bottles in case of Brexit.
Who will have the rights to drink those 5000 bottles I do not know.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 05:11 am
@saab,
A coiple of years ago, the British government had sold some dozen bottles from its vintage French wine collection - for £5,000 a bottle.
Although they still got more than 39,000 vintage wines, they really could get some more - 5,000 bottles is about the number used by the British government per year.

Theresa May has announced legislation to end authority of EU law. And that the UK is transposing these EU laws into British law.
But I don't think that the wine is included. (I suppose that the ownership of the wine is a question of Belgian, Luxembourgian and French laws about ownership.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 05:30 am
What will happen now timescale for article 50 has been revealed?

It will be very long good bye - if the supreme court decides that the government really does have the power to invoke article 50 without parliament’s approval.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 06:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Opposite to the EU's plans to keep the European Parliament informed about the Brexit negotiations with regular updates, the Prime Minister said that though MPs would be informed at "various stages", they would not be privy to precisely what her negotiators were doing.

Questioned on the secrecy ahead of the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the Prime Minister said transparency could jepordise Britain’s negotiating position.

Quote:
“First of all, of course parliament will be involved in this process. The Great Repeal Bill, Parliament will be having its say on that,” she told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.

“Of course at various stages we will be keeping parliament informed. This is not about keeping silent for two years but its about making sure that we are able to negotiate, that we don’t set out all the cards in our negotiation.

“Because as anybody will know who’s been involved in these things, if you do that up front, or if you give a running commentary you don’t get the right deal. What I’m determined to do is get the right deal for Britain.”
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 2 Oct, 2016 10:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit: Theresa May prioritises immigration curbs over single market
Quote:
Addressing the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the prime minister also promised that all EU workers’ rights would remain protected for as long as she was in power.

Controlling immigration would be the key basis for departure, May said. The government would seek access to the EU’s single market if possible, she said, adding: “But let me be clear. We are not leaving the European Union only to give up control of immigration again. And we are not leaving only to return to the jurisdiction of the European court of justice.”
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 06:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I wonder if all of the metrication in the UK will be set back when the EU-act will be repealed.
(My guess: just some former units of measurement will come back, like for weight and distance, and Celsius will be "banned", too.)
saab
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 07:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Imagen what that is going to cost!
Metric system has been used for decades so some people would not even know how to use the old system.
What about if the shilling (a monetary unit equal to 12 pence or one-twentieth of a pound) also should make a comeback.

It will take about 10 years until everything is settled around Brexit.
So who knows what will happen during the next few years.
Brexit might be such a failure we have to send Izzythepush care packages.
Brexit might be such a succes that other countries might follow.
Brexit might not even happen.
Turkey might be in EU which then will be called Eurasian Union.

Probably things will just go slowly and well thought thru without all kinds of strange ideas.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 07:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I wonder if all of the metrication in the UK will be set back when the EU-act will be repealed.
(My guess: just some former units of measurement will come back, like for weight and distance, and Celsius will be "banned", too.)


The good old days come back eeh ? Yeah that's what they sold to the old folk who voted for Brexit... Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 07:37 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I really think that "Brexit means Brexit".
But I do think as well that the referendum's question was 'too simple'.

I'm far too uneducated about British constitutional laws, but I always wondered why the vote of the parliament was needed to join the EU, and why it isn't when the UK leaves.

Obviously, others have here doubts as well:
Theresa May accused of using Queen's power to push hard Brexit
Quote:
A senior Tory peer has accused Theresa May of “using the royal prerogative” to decide on her own what Brexit will look like, without giving anyone else a say.

Patience Wheatcroft said she had been left “confused” by Ms May’s conference speech, which saw the Prime Minister signal that immigration controls would trump gaining single market access in any Brexit deal.

She demanded that Parliament be given a say on the process and raised the prospect of a second election to decide the matter.

Her intervention is significant because to achieve Brexit Ms May will have to pass her “Great Repeal Bill”, ending the EU’s authority in Britain, through the Lords, where the Tories are already in a minority.

Baroness Wheatcroft argued that while the people did say that they are unhappy with the current situation in the referendum, they had not said what they would like to see as an alternative.

She said: “I’m confused. I listen to what Ms May said yesterday and she wants to continue with free trade, she wants British business to have the benefits of the single market. I’m not sure we are going to have that and I’d like to know how we are going to proceed.

“It doesn’t feel very democratic to have one individual using the royal prerogative, deciding exactly when we’re going to commit to that momentous path.”
... ... ...
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 08:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I really think that "Brexit means Brexit".
But I do think as well that the referendum's question was 'too simple'.

I'm far too uneducated about British constitutional laws, but I always wondered why the vote of the parliament was needed to join the EU, and why it isn't when the UK leaves.


Well I'm no expert either, but as we both likely know the UK has no written constitution, and as a result likely, from a strict legal perspective, the flexibility to address these questions any way a successful government chooses (i.e. without subsequently being voted out of office). Joining the EU involved a loss of some degree of sovereignty, or at least transferring it to the EU. It appears to me, at least, that truly was an appropriate issue for a national referendum. That this wasn't done possibly reflects the then ruling party's eagerness to join, the fear of a national debare attending a referendum and all it would entail, or perhaps the widespread popularity of membership at the time - there may have been no significant opposition to it.

In a similar vein leaving the EU appears to me to be an equally serious matter of sovereignty, justifying a referendum. However, I believe the facts suggest a somewhat different motive of the part of then PM Cameron. It appears he wanted greater control over immigration and other matters involving the EU, but otherwise wished to merely put the issue of GREXIT to bed through a referendum, and the outcome surprised him.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 08:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
EU commission still refuses UK talks before article 50 triggered
Quote:
The European commission has rejected Theresa May’s call for preparatory talks on Brexit before the UK’s formal resignation from the EU.

The commission, which is likely to run Brexit talks for the EU, reiterated its refusal to negotiate before article 50 is triggered, which the prime minister has promised will happen by before the end of March. “I cannot go an inch beyond the ‘no negotiations without notification’ principle,” said Margaritis Schinas, the chief spokesman for the commission’s president, Jean-Claude Juncker.

The prime minister, who delighted Eurosceptics with her party conference speech, which leaned towards a complete break with the EU, is pushing for advance talks, before article 50. She said it was important for the UK and for Europe as a whole, to carry out “preparatory work” to ensure smoother negotiations.

Juncker will meet May on the sidelines of a European summit in October, but would not negotiate with her, his spokesman said.

“When it comes to article 50 we will work constructively on the basis of a notification, not on the basis of a speech. And until this letter of notification arrives, there will be no negotiations. Once it arrives we are prepared to engage constructively and in good faith,” the spokesman said.

The statement is more emphatic than the response of the European council president, Donald Tusk, who also appeared to pour cold water on the idea of preparatory talks. Following May’s speech on Sunday, he tweeted:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 08:55 am
@georgeob1,
In the UK, parliament is sovereign and referenda are generally not binding.
The idea behind the concept of parliamentary sovereignty isn't a government by plebiscites or referenda.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 09:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I agree. And the UK's entry into the EU through a vote of parliament was indeed a legal act. However the surrender of sovereignty is not a typical or usual act of a legislature. I believe (my opinion only) that the UK would have been well advised to have employed to use a referendum in joining. Had they done so the rather odd BREXIT might have gone differently.

Alternatively it may well be that not everyone undestood what might become the real consequences of the expressed principle of "ever closer union" contained in it. I believe this is the real underlying issue in the case of the UK and those of several other points of friction in today's union.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 09:15 am
@georgeob1,
There was a referendum about the EEC ... after the UK joined, and just to get support for the decision (the "United Kingdom European Community [Common Market] Membership Referendum").


I totally agree with your second paragraph, too. [NB: "totally agree", "too" Wink ]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 3 Oct, 2016 12:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Brexit: Philip Hammond promises to spend billions to make up for lost EU money after growing pressure
Quote:
Chancellor Philip Hammond today bowed to growing pressure by promising to guarantee billions of pounds for regeneration projects at risk because of Brexit.
[...]


Philip Hammond to spend his way out of Brexit fallout
Quote:
[...]
At the moment, consumers are confident the government can negotiate a smooth and painless exit. Hammond’s speech is the first to make it clear that without full access to all tools in the Treasury’s kit bag, from higher spending to business-friendly immigration, there are senior Tory ministers who believe smooth and painless is a pipe dream.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  2  
Tue 4 Oct, 2016 02:14 am
@saab,
See what a small compleately stupid reason there can be to start talking about exit without even thinking about the consequences.
Regarding EU there are at least 50 shades of grey in certain states between black and white.
This morning I was reading the Danish paper Jyllandsposten.
There is Danish flag in the Danish parliament, but now one reporter finds it correct to have the EU flag too.
Every letter to the editor was against the idea.
It went from a rather polite. A national flag represents a nation but the EU flag does not - it repesents a "club" to "if we are forced to hang the EUDSSR flag in our parliament we better leave EU."
 

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