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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
contrex
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 03:39 am
I didn't realise before that Nigel Farage said before the referendum that if the vote went 52% to 48% against Brexit, (as the polls were suggesting in early May) then there should be another referendum, because such a momentous decision could surely not be taken on such a narrow majority. I'm going to take great delight in telling that to any white-van-man Brexit idiots who trumpet on about "democracy" and the people having "spoken".
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  3  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 05:16 am
Five weeks before the vote, Farage said there could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain won by a narrow margin on 23 June. He said he believed the Leave campaign were on course for victory, but there would be resentment, particularly in the Conservative Party, if Remain won, with claims the referendum would not have been a fair contest. he told the Daily Mirror "In a 52-48 referendum [the actual result but with Brexit the higher] this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

Since there was not a 66.66% majority for Brexit, Farage should logically (and honourably) now call for a second referendum, and all the Leave supporters who bleat about "democracy" should button their lips.

It is indeed "unfinished business".
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 07:20 am
@contrex,
Japan's Brexit demands range from possible to fanciful
Quote:
In a letter to the EU and UK at the G20 summit in China, Japan says it is representing the needs of businesses that have invested heavily in the UK with a view to exporting across Europe. The Nissan car plant in Washington, County Durham, exports more than 80% of the cars it makes. The new Hitachi train factory down the road in Newton Aycliffe is making trains for the UK, but has ambitions to compete with Germany’s Siemens for contracts across the continent.

Although the letter says Tokyo respects the referendum vote, the clear demand is for the current arrangements to stay the same for businesses to invest and create jobs. At its heart, the letter implies that UK exports could be jeopardised by a Liam Fox- or David Davis-inspired break with the EU that involves the re-introduction of trade barriers and quotas restricting immigration, whatever the Secretary of State for International Trade (Fox) or Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Davis) says about their plans for signing deals with other countries.

The demands range from the maintenance of low tariffs on exports to keeping various EU agencies in the UK. Some look possible, others almost fanciful. Here [see link] we assess the likelihood that the upcoming negotiations can address the concerns of Japanese businesses, beginning with:

... ... ...
0 Replies
 
momoends
 
  1  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 07:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The y were never a member of the European Union
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 07:34 am
@momoends,
momoends wrote:
The y were never a member of the European Union
Japan you mean? No-one said so.
momoends
 
  0  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 07:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
NO... United Kingdom (note i havent said Britain or England)
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No, Walter, it's not like the United States at all, and the United Kingdom is not like the United States, either, or wasn't when it was formed. The Senate was created to reassure the small states (small in population) that they would not be overwhelmed by large population states. The Senate, where representation is equal (each state has two Senators), has the sole power to consent to appointments to executive branch offices (the equivalent of ministers in Europe). That was a significant issue in the 18th century. In 1641, the Long Parliament impeached Thomas Wentworth, the Earl of Strafford, and he was condemned and executed. Bishop Laud was impeached and then imprisoned, and was executed (eventually) in 1645. John Finch, Lord Keeper of the Seal, was impeached, and with the permission of Charles I, fled to Holland to avoid imprisonment or execution.

Executive appointments were, therefore, considered extremely important, and that was why giving that power to the Senate was an issue of state sovereignty. No treaty can be ratified or rescinded without the approval of two thirds of the Senate--so the sovereignty of the states, represented equally, is preserved in foreign affairs as well.

Earlier in this thread, i asked some questions about the appointment of people to office and the formulation of bills of legislation in the European Union--those questions were never answered.

Additionally, Americans vote every November, whether it is a general election or not. They vote for township, municipal, county and state offices. They vote on tax levies, the issuance of bonds and ballot initiatives. In that respect, the sovereignty of the people is exercised. I have yet to see anyone here demonstrate that the sovereignty of states or the people is respected and exercised in the European Union.

No, the European Union is not at all like the United States.
contrex
 
  3  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:11 am
@momoends,
momoends wrote:

NO... United Kingdom (note i havent said Britain or England)

The United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has been a member of the EEC/European Union since 1st January 1973.
contrex
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:12 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
the United Kingdom is not like the United States

Something to be grateful for...
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:26 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Additionally, Americans vote every November, whether it is a general election or not. They vote for township, municipal, county and state offices. They vote on tax levies, the issuance of bonds and ballot initiatives. In that respect, the sovereignty of the people is exercised. I have yet to see anyone here demonstrate that the sovereignty of states or the people is respected and exercised in the European Union.
We vote ever<y four years. Te reason is quite simple because we elect our representatives = representative democracy.

We don't elect our civil servants etc - tey either make an apprenticeship or studay a relevant subject at university and then try to get the job via a job application.

The EU parliament is elected every four years as well.
saab
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The EU parliament is elected every four years as well.

As a Swede I vote for a Swede.
If I lived in another EU country I could either vote for a Swede OR for a representativ from the country I live in.
You get papers from your home country as well as the one you live in.
Some then vote for both countries.
Some people do have priviliegies.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:49 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

Quote:
The EU parliament is elected every four years as well.

As a Swede I vote for a Swede.
If I lived in another EU country I could either vote for a Swede OR for a representativ from the country I live in.
You get papers from your home country as well as the one you live in.
Some then vote for both countries.
Some people do have priviliegies.
Interesting.
It's different here, we ave one vote for those on the list. (I suppose, most have been Germans or have a dual citizenship like David McAllister, the most famous German-British politician here)
If a German votes twice, it's not a a privilege but a criminal offence. (§107 Criminal Code)
saab
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 08:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
If I as Swede vote twice in Sweden it is a criminal offence.
But EU with its 1 800 laws a year did not notice that with an EU citizen living in another country can vote twice.
I as a Swede can only vote for the Swedish parliament but not for the one in the foreign country I live in.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 09:03 am
@saab,
There is no "EU criminal code".
Voting frauds are all regulated in the various national criminal codes according to the EU-electoral procedures.
saab
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 09:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I never said anything about EU criminal code

https://euobserver.com/justice/16568
http://aceproject.org/electoral-advice/archive/questions/replies/830178934
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 09:47 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
I never said anything about EU criminal code
You didn't.
But you wrote:
But EU with its 1 800 laws a year did not notice that with an EU citizen living in another country can vote twice.
By what other legal act besides a criminal code (which is a national criminal code) can you prohibit such?
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 12:08 pm
@contrex,
The feeling is reciprocated.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 12:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
OK, do your representatives appoint township, municipal and state officials or do you elect them? If any level of local government wants to increase the property tax, levy a new tax or issue bonds, does the electorate vote on that, or is that handled by bureaucracy? You keep making vague comparisons, but you're not dealing in anything very specific.
saab
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 12:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Voting twice in Sweden is illegal
Voting twice for EU is illegal, but it seems as the individual countries do not have a legal act to punish for what is happening in anothr country and it is difficult to prove that a person voted twice.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 4 Sep, 2016 12:29 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:
Voting twice for EU is illegal, but it seems as the individual countries do not have a legal act to punish for what is happening in anothr country and it is difficult to prove that a person voted twice.

But it was you, who complained that there wasn't an EU-law about it.
 

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