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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:41 am
@saab,
53% of British adults expected a generous deal in that poll.
The other Europeans want freedom to live and work in the UK - or no deal.

Which didn't surprise me either.

saab
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Scandinavians have alwazys felt closer to UK than the Germans or the French have.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 03:13 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
The Scandinavians have alwazys felt closer to UK than the Germans or the French have.
Might be so. Or not.
But a feeling doesn't change the EU-principles.
contrex
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 04:11 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

The Scandinavians have alwazys felt closer to UK than the Germans or the French have.

The British tend to think of Scandinavians as being either "kind hearted, stupid" (George Orwell) or else that they are sort of Germans with higher foreheads and very fair hair. Or else they are Sven Hassell. This in spite of the Scandi noir TV shows we watch these days.
saab
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 04:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What counts more amongst ordinary people in politics - their feelings or principles.? I doubt very much that people as a rule know much about EU principles.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 07:45 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
I doubt very much that people as a rule know much about EU principles.
The free movement of goods, freedom of movement for workers, free movement of capital, and the right of establishment and freedom to provide services are those principles. And I do believe that most people in the EU know about it.
saab
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 08:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I went to the post office to-day to mail a package to Denmark and was asked if Denmark is in EU.
Friends have visited me from Germany and were asked in the bank in the bank if Sweden has Euro.
This is just two examples so I do not really think people know about all details what is going on.
If you have no plans what so ever to move outside of your own country why should you then be interested in the details what EU says.

Europabarometern has asked three questions in EU countries.
1. EU has 28 members?
2.Switzerland is in EU?
3. The members of the EU parliament are elected directly by citizens in every member state.

All three answers were given correctly by
25% by the Netherlands
France 30%
EU 35%
Best was Croatia with 55%
Sweden and Germany both 37%
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 08:30 am
@saab,
But you, as a born Danish, certainly know that Princess Benedikte of Denmark, who often represents the Queen of Denmark at official or semi-official events, is here in Germany Prinzessin zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. Wink
saab
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 08:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes I do and I have even been to Berleburg, but not because of the Princess.
I also know that
Friedrich from Hessen became King Fredrik I of Sweden from 1720 to 1751 because he married the Swedish queen who abdicated and wanted him to become king.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 09:04 am
@saab,
Back to Brexit.
Quote:
[...]
In the June referendum, Gibraltarians voted by 96 per cent to 4 per cent to remain in the EU – a higher margin than in any voting district.

Now its political leaders are wondering whether the Rock can do what they call a ‘reverse Greenland’. Though Greenland is ruled by Denmark, which is a member of the EU, the island’s political leaders achieved a deal in 1985 under which it left the EU without severing its political links to Denmark.

In Gibraltar, the question is being raised as to whether the territory could remain in the EU when the UK leaves, while continuing to be a British Overseas Territory, its chief minister, Fabian Picardo told the BBC’s Today progamme.

"A hard Brexit would be really an existential threat to the Gibraltar economic model," he warned.

"What might be a disastrous exit for the United Kingdom would be an existential threat to Gibraltar's current economic model.

"We have been talking about this possibility of what has been described as a 'reverse Greenland' which envisages one part of a member state leaving the European Union because it chooses to do so and other parts of the member state remaining, with access to the single market and freedom of movement being the things that matter most to us.

"What Gibraltar is looking at is what type of participation we can have in the European Union or with the European Union, once the United Kingdom has decided what its Brexit looks like."

The Gibraltar government is already in discussions with Scotland, which also voted strongly for Remain, about what kind of arrangements they could have with the EU once the UK finally leaves.

Mr Picardo strongly rejected suggestions that it would have to concede some form of joint sovereignty to Spain – something it has long opposed – if it were to continue to enjoy unfettered access to EU markets and labour.

"We are not worried because we have seen this sort of bloody-minded attitude before," he said.
Source
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 09:31 am
Returning to my thesis that May does not want to trigger Article 50, because nobody knows what Brexit means, this from John Crace's "Digested Week" political diary in the Guardian:
Quote:
Wednesday
Trying to keep up with what Brexit means other than Brexit is becoming ever more confusing. Once we were going to be triggering article 50 the day after the country voted to leave the EU but now it keeps getting kicked further and further into the long grass. Some time in 2019 is now being suggested as the earliest date possible – a date so close to the next general election it almost certainly won’t happen until afterwards, at which point the next government will feel it has a mandate to push it back even further.

Not even those who are meant to know what is going on seem to know what is going on. Last week Liam Fox issued a press release on the Department for International Trade’s website that in effect admitted that were Britain to leave the European single market it would trade with the rest of the EU under World Trade Organisation rules. This week that particular press release has been taken down from the department’s website. It seems that someone has finally got round to telling the Fantastic Mr Fox that telling everyone they will have to pay 10% more on imported cars and 12% more on clothes when he had previously assured the country the EU would be falling over backwards to conduct free trade deals with the UK was not being exactly on message.

"Doctor" Liam Fox, as he likes to be know, is a wanker.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:32 am
@contrex,
What is a "wanker". I infer it's not good.

I believe the suggestions you made earlier about a likely emerging new consensus within the UK about its relations with the EU are likely accurate. Something similar may also be going on within the EU itself.

The move from a system in which almost everything is defined or prescribed, to one offering more freedom of action is necessarily filled with uncertainty. That doesn't mean the outcome will necessarily be bad. Both sides in this matter have good reasons to find a solution and to address the underlying causes that attend it. History suggests the failure of either party to do so may have bad consequences. There is risk here to be sure.

Just as the moderate fall of the Pound relative to the EURO has raised the incentives for EU members and their people to buy and use more UK goods and services - as seversal here have noted - the EU and its member states have strong, continuing incentives to address the challenges of the several regional and local challenges that confront the union , of which the UK is only one.

The forces uniting Europe are still greater than those that would divide it, though the challenges to it are diverse and changing. I believe Brexit should be viewed more in that context by both poarties involved.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:23 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
What is a "wanker". I infer it's not good.
In AE it would be jerk/jerkoff.
It is the fourth most severe pejorative in English. (The BBC describes it as 'moderately offensive' and 'almost certain' to generate complaints if used before the watershed.)
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
OK.. I know a couple of guys like that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 12:56 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe Brexit should be viewed more in that context by both poarties involved.
If it just were two parties!

I think that any progress can only be made and negotiations only can be started, after the UK has reached a consens what Brexit means.
Brexit purists and Brexit pragmatists within the UK-government and the Tories must find a strategy, one, not many.

The trouble is that it was just a 'no' or 'yes' vote.
The EU isn't only a single market - for instance, the UK is highly involved in Europol, contributes quite a lot to the European fight against organised crime and terrorism. (Europol's chief is British.)

Regarding the rights of EU-citizens to remain in Britain - there seems to be change in public opinion now, according to a poll (report >here<)

The UK has slammed the door - the uncertainty about the future relations to the EU seems to be long-term.
contrex
 
  1  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 01:24 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
What is a "wanker". I infer it's not good.

A wanker is literally a chronic masturbator, one who jerks off because he can't get real sex, and the term implies failure, being ridiculous, and being second or third rate. This last is significant. If you are serious about a project you don't put a mouthy jerkwad in charge of it.
contrex
 
  2  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 01:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The UK has slammed the door - the uncertainty about the future relations to the EU seems to be long-term.

Exactly. That's why the people saying 'look - no disaster' only a few weeks after the vote are jackasses.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 01:50 am
@contrex,
Quote:
A wanker is literally a chronic masturbator....


That's a literal take on a common descriptive insult. A wanker can be someone who is simply so self-absorbed, as to completely miss what is happening around them, despite many clues being obvious.

contrex
 
  3  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 02:56 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
A wanker is literally a chronic masturbator....


That's a literal take on a common descriptive insult. A wanker can be someone who is simply so self-absorbed, as to completely miss what is happening around them, despite many clues being obvious.



Thank you for re-stating my explanation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 21 Aug, 2016 02:13 pm
@contrex,
A recent YouGov poll didn't show significantly changed differences to public opinion since the referendum.
Besides that free trade with the EU-countries seems to have become more important now.

Interesting replies when asked about a Canada-type deal, where there is no freedom of movement or financial contribution, but only a limited free trade deal that excludes services. That was seen as both honouring the result of the referendum, and as positive for Britain - but I have some serious doubts, if those who answered, really know what it means.

The full tabs are on the website >here<
 

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