47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 7 Aug, 2016 07:10 pm
@georgeob1,
These seem to be some of the major issues of the EU.
 The Greek debt crisis;
 The migration and refugee crisis;
 The June 23, 2016, United Kingdom referendum on EU membership;
 A resurgent Russia; and
 A heightened terrorism threat.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 7 Aug, 2016 10:36 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I don't claim any particular knowledge of British law, but referenda are usually binding.
Usually (sic!), referenda are not binding, depending the constitution. (In parliamentary democracies, it isn't [mostly] binding.)

There isn't a "British law", by the way: the UK has three distinct systems of law: English law, Northern Ireland law and Scots law.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Actually, the USA has no referenda at the national level, like e.g. in Germany.

Besides that, the term "referendum" seems to mean something slightly different than used here in Europe.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
e.g. in Germany.


Wikipedia list of referenda by country
wikipedia about the situation Germany wrote:
On the federal level, there are only two mandatory constitutional referendum types. One type is for enacting a new constitution. Changes to the constitution do not require a public vote and there is no provision for an initiative for a constitutional amendment. There has never been a referendum of this type, although there was an argument in that direction during German reunification. The other type requires a public vote in case of restructuring the Bundesländer i.e. States ("Neugliederung des Bundesgebietes", New Arrangement of the Federal Territory) which led to a referendum on the merger of Baden and Württemberg into Baden-Württemberg in 1951 (accepted) and a referendum on the merger of Berlin and Brandenburg into Berlin-Brandenburg in 1996 (rejected).


wikipedia about the UK wrote:
Although Acts of Parliament may permit referendums to take place, the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty means any Act of Parliament giving effect to a referendum result could be reversed by a subsequent Act of Parliament. As a result, referendums in the United Kingdom cannot be constitutionally binding, although they will usually have a persuasive political effect.


wikipedia about the USA wrote:
In the United States, the term "referendum" typically refers to a popular vote originated by petition to overturn legislation already passed at the state or local levels (mainly in the western United States). In industrial cities and regions, it refers to internal, union organization in terms of electing delegates or approving a collective bargaining agreement. By contrast, "initiatives" and "legislative referrals" consist of newly drafted legislation submitted directly to a popular vote as an alternative to adoption by a legislature. Collectively, referendums and initiatives in the United States are commonly referred to as ballot measures, initiatives, or propositions.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 07:34 am
The British tourism industry is booming post-Brexit thanks to a rise in the number of foreign travellers:
- the Tourism Alliance data showed an 18 per cent boost in overseas visitors since the Referendum,
- tourism board Visit Britain has also reported a “Brexit bounce” with accommodation and flight bookings up on the same period last year,

- and today, Forward Keys published the data of recent survey:
• Bookings for arrivals to the UK boosted by 7.1% after the Brexit referendum over a comparable period of 28 days,
• As a result, booking trends for international visitors to the UK are up by +4.3%

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 10:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Is Germany next?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 11:18 am
@cicerone imposter,
Next to what?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 11:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Germex.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 12:32 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks, and it appears Contrex is correct about th legal status of the public vote in the UK. I see little speculation in the press here indicating that the parliament will overturn the BREXIT, though on such a matter anything may be possible.

I rather loosely used the term referendum to describe the ballot initiatives that are so frequent here in California. They do indeed have the force of law and cannot be repealed except by a separate voter initiative undoing them. Most are bad news.

The sudden upturn in Tourism to the UK is interesting. Is this merely a seasonal trend or does the apparently significant change actuially exceed seasonal variations? Hard to see any connection wioth the pending BREXIt though.
contrex
 
  3  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:03 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The sudden upturn in Tourism to the UK is interesting. Is this merely a seasonal trend or does the apparently significant change actuially exceed seasonal variations? Hard to see any connection wioth the pending BREXIt though.

I think it is the result of last-minute vacation selection by people noticing the good exchange rates caused by the weakened weak pound post-referendum.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:05 pm
@contrex,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3600650/Visits-UK-overseas-tourists-increase-5-1.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:19 pm
@contrex,
That's what I think as well (And that's why many Brits complain being "overseas" on the European continent for holidays.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:40 pm
The facts about EU trade policy lost in the Brexit kerfuffle

Quote:
Both sides of the referendum did little to explain the mechanics of EU trade policy and member states’ tug of war with Brussels
[...]
So what are the facts? The EU looks after trade policy on behalf of 28 member states. In theory, the European commission is all powerful on trade; in reality there is a tug of war between Brussels and national governments for mastery of the EU’s commercial policy.

The commission negotiates trade deals, but only after EU leaders have handed down a mandate. Final deals need to be approved by ministers and the European parliament. Increasingly, national parliaments have a say: up to 40 national and regional assemblies, including Belgium’s six parliaments, could vote on the EU-Canada trade deal.

The EU has 34 trade agreements covering 60 countries according to the commission. This tally includes single-country deals, such as agreements with non-EU Norway and Switzerland, or further afield, South Africa and South Korea. Also included are provisional deals with Ukraine and Georgia, trade deals that have been approved by EU institutions but have yet to be voted on by national parliaments. Dutch voters recently voted down an EU treaty with Ukraine, although the trade parts of the deal have already entered into force.

Beyond this, the EU has embarked on 19 trade negotiations covering 52 countries. By far the biggest and most controversial is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Talks are expected to intensify in the autumn, as both sides make a final push before Barack Obama leaves office. Trade talks are also under way with Vietnam and Japan, while Brussels hopes to upgrade an existing agreement with Mexico.

Further down the line, the EU hopes to start trade talks with seven countries, including Australia.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 01:45 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
I think it is the result of last-minute vacation selection by people noticing the good exchange rates caused by the weakened weak pound post-referendum.


that's definitely been a factor in my circle - the weakened pound led to better ticket prices and friends are pretty happy about extras they can afford in Britain this year.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
How popular are Japanese products in the Euro zone?
contrex
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 03:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
How popular are Japanese products in the Euro zone?

About as popular as they are generally. Sony, Honda, Nikon, Toyota etc all considered premium brands. Britain has been buying Hitachi high speed trains. Japan is the 6th largest source of imports to the EU (4.3% in 2010 with a value of €65 billion). Mainly machinery and transport equipment (66%). The EU is Japan's 3rd largest trading partner (11.1% of imports, 13.3% exports).

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2016 03:43 pm
@contrex,
Wow, that's amazing! I knew they were doing better than average, because here in Northern California where I live, we always see more Japanese cars than any other. Some times 3-4 Honda cars surround ours on the road.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 12:59 am
During the summer holidays season, nothing really spectacular will happen, neither in Brussels nor in London.
Which isn't bad at all: it will give time to reflect about who wants what (The UK-government does not know what sort of Brexit it wants. The referendum only asked about membership of the EU. It did not propose any particular model.)

Adding a few problems which weren't addressed here:

- the budget negotiations. The UK will be under pressure from Brexiters to "bring back a chunk of EU funds", while the EU side may demand payment to the common budget "if we are going to get a good deal on free-market access and free movement". (The UK has outstanding commitments which amount to €25bn.),
- UK’s share of the EU’s €59bn pension liability, which guarantees income for 1,730 retired British officials (as well as other nationalities)

- Switzerland voted narrowly in a 2014 referendum to cap EU immigration. Curbing immigration would violate the EU’s fundamental principle linking free movement to single market access. So far, Brussels has made it clear to Bern that free movement is strictly non-negotiable, and Switzerland has admitted Brexit makes things tricky. It may well be that a second Swiss referendum is the only way out.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 9 Aug, 2016 09:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Norway may block UK return to European Free Trade Association
Quote:
Norway could block the UK if it tries to rejoin the European Free Trade Association, the small club of nations that has access to the EU single market without joining the EU itself.
[...]
Norway is not a member of the European Union but has access to Europe’s lucrative single market via its membership in the European Economic Area (EEA), which groups all EU members and three of the four EFTA members (Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, but not Switzerland).

Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker, reflecting a growing debate in the country following Brexit, told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation. It would shift the balance, which is not necessarily in Norway’s interests.”

She also confirmed that the UK could only join if there was unanimous agreement, thereby providing Norway with a veto. She added she did not know the UK’s plans.EEA membership requires access to the four EU freedoms: free movement of persons, services, goods and capital. Norway, in need of extra labour, does not oppose free movement, though the subject of asylum seekers and refugees is controversial. ... ... ...

One concern is that Norway, through the EFTA, has signed trade agreements with 38 countries, including Mexico, Canada, Colombia, Morocco, Kuwait and Qatar. If the UK joined, those trade agreements might have to be renegotiated, and future trade agreements would become more complex.

During the UK referendum campaign Norwegian government members including the prime minister, Erna Solberg, repeatedly urged British voters not to follow the Norway example saying: “Do not leave the EU, you will hate it.”

The largely pro-EU political class in Norway argue the high price for access to the EU single market is a loss of sovereignty since Norway is bound by EU decisions without having a vote on how they are taken.

Britain was a founding member of EFTA in 1960, a free trade organisation that was an appendage to the European Economic Community (EEC), the forerunner of the EU. In 1973, Britain joined the EEC.

By opposing a British return to the EFTA – where decisions are made by consensus – Norway would in effect block London’s chances of accessing the European market via the EEA, since only EU and EFTA members can be part of the EEA.

Sources in the Norwegian Labour party said there was growing concern at the consequences for Norway if the UK joined EFTA. A source joked that Norway might lose its superpower status in the EFTA if the UK joined. The total current membership of the EFTA is 14 million, but the UK population is 55 million.

Trygve Slagsvold Vedum, the leader of Norway’s Centre party, has accused the government of dawdling in its response to Brexit, saying it needs to be proactive in defending Norwegian interests.

Audun Lysbakken, the leader of Norway’s Socialist Left party, has argued that the EEA agreement should be renegotiated, with the UK’s help, saying countries “outside need a better model for cooperation with the EU than the current EEA agreement”.

He added he was amazed his government did not want to have an open debate about a new relationship with the EU. He said: “Throughout the spring, the government has been adamant that the EEA is not a good model and it is not something they would recommend to the British. Now they suddenly want to leave it as it is.

“The EEA has created a significant democratic deficit through importing laws over which Norway has little influence.”
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ireland, Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden are some of the biggest consumers of UK goods.

This map shows which EU countries buy the most British stuff

http://i63.tinypic.com/v4qwau.jpg
Quote:
Credit Suisse has produced a handy graphic showing which European Union members buy the most British-made goods.

The size of each pie chart represents the total monetary value of British exports to each country, while the percentage underneath is that value as a percentage of the country's GDP. The dark blue segment of each pie chart is the proportion of UK imports that are consumed in that country. The rest are re-exported to other countries.


Quote:
Credit Suisse produces the below bar chart showing which British industries most depend on being part of an EU production chain below:
http://i63.tinypic.com/dol0m8.jpg
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 06:07:34