47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 09:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Walter:
Quote:
My guess:
May as PM will set up a new government department, working tirelessly on the mechanics of leaving (costing a great deal of money) which will run for 6-9 months until people get fed up with the whole idea and the Establishment comes up with some fudge as to why it would be better to remain. (Which is how May voted on 23rd June!)


Surely a possibility. Another possibility is that in 9 months the predicted collapse of the UK/world economies turns out to be a blip on the screen that they have been over for months, and people decide to press on with the Brexit.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 11:22 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Surely a possibility. Another possibility is that in 9 months the predicted collapse of the UK/world economies turns out to be a blip on the screen that they have been over for months, and people decide to press on with the Brexit.
Might be so.
Bur 'if', why don't the candidates for the PM-position not say so? Perhaps, because they like the actual situation?
Blickers
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 09:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The drop in the pound vs both the dollar and the euro has stabilized, very likely they are waiting for further signs of economic stability before making predictions. Which is the sensible thing to do.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 10:33 pm
@Blickers,
The reaction now was due to the result of the resolution.

Waiting for further signs of economic stability still being a member of the EU? When they've triggered article 50?
Blickers
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 11:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Have they triggered article 50?

Edit: Just checked. As of 13 hours ago, they had not.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jul, 2016 11:12 pm
@Blickers,
Some say, they'll do it in September/October. Others, at the end of the year. (Anyway, only after they got a new PM, it seems)
And perhaps courts have to decide, if a parliament decision is necessary.
nacredambition
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 01:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
And perhaps courts have to decide, if a parliament decision is necessary.


Neither courts nor referenda enact legislation.
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 01:42 am
@nacredambition,
Quote:
Neither courts nor referenda enact legislation.

In the British system, Parliament enacts legislation. Because of the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, the Supreme Court is much more limited in its powers of judicial review than the constitutional or supreme courts of some other countries. It cannot overturn any primary legislation made by Parliament. However, it can overturn secondary legislation if, for example, that legislation is found to be ultra vires to the powers in primary legislation allowing it to be made.

The law company Mishcon de Reya is currently considering action which could go to the High Court and then to judges in the Supreme Court. Their position is that the law requires that Parliament give the Prime Minister authorisation to issue a declaration under Article 50.

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 05:44 am
@Tes yeux noirs,
Tes yeux noirs wrote:
The law company Mishcon de Reya is currently considering action which could go to the High Court and then to judges in the Supreme Court. Their position is that the law requires that Parliament give the Prime Minister authorisation to issue a declaration under Article 50.
I was referring exactly to that.
Before, other legal experts of constitutional law have said that the referendum said "nothing" about its impact, meaning it was "purely advisory".

Quote:
It is being said that the government can trigger Brexit under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, merely by sending a note to Brussels. This is wrong. Article 50 says: “Any member state may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.” The UK’s most fundamental constitutional requirement is that there must first be the approval of its parliament.
[...]
Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum. That role belongs to the representatives of the people and not to the people themselves. Democracy has never meant the tyranny of the simple majority, much less the tyranny of the mob (otherwise, we might still have capital punishment). Democracy entails an elected government, subject to certain checks and balances such as the common law and the courts, and an executive ultimately responsible to parliament, whose members are entitled to vote according to conscience and common sense.
Geoffrey Robertson QC, Doughty Street Chambers, in the Guardian
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 06:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
A happy Tynwald Day to all Manx people!

I mention this here, because people in the Crown dependencies of the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey could not vote in the referendum as none of them are in the EU. The result means the Isle of Man will now have to seek a replacement for its Protocol 3 relationship with the EU, which allows free trade in manufactured goods and agricultural products.
Protocol No. 3 placed the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man within the Common Customs territory of the Community and the Common External Tariff of the EEC. Broadly speaking this means that no customs duties are applied to goods exported to members of the customs union but a common customs tariff applies to goods imported into the customs union from non-member countries.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 08:00 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The drop in the pound vs both the dollar and the euro has stabilized, ...
Since you seem to be focused on just these points of an EU-membership:
Quote:
Worries about the economic impact of leaving the European Union hit Britain's property market and drove the pound to a new 31-year low on Tuesday as Conservative members of parliament began voting for a new prime minister
Source

NYT: ‘Brexit’ Briefing: Worries Over Pound and Stocks, and Conservatives Vote
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 08:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I've said similar already before:
Britain will still be bound by international courts under any serious trade deal, MPs warned
Quote:

[...]The Professor of European Law at University of Liverpool advised the House of Commons Treasury Select Committee that membership of the European Economic Area would still see European law being given priority over British law.

“There is still an obligation for EEA states to respect the priority of EEA rules,” he told MPs in a fact-finding session on Tuesday.

“It’s not quite the same as the principle of supremacy of EU law for EU states, but it is still an obligation of priority for EEA rules to take preference over conflicting statutory rules within EEA states.”

He added: “In practice the scholarship from Norway and Iceland tell us there is not an enormous amount of difference from the effect of EEA law within those member states [and the effect of EU law in EU member states].”

Professor Dougan’s evidence also suggested that turning from Europe and towards other countries in the world would not allow Britain to escape being overruled by international courts.

He warned the MPs that that trade deals with any country would inevitably see Britain bound by some form of “independent judicial authority”. Examples of such courts include the so-called “investor state dispute settlement mechanism” being negotiated between the EU and US under TTIP.
[...]
Under the most likely scenario of EEA membership Britain would retain access to the single market, keep freedom of movement, and likely implement most EU rules. It would however not get MEPs in the European Parliament, a European Commissioner, or a minister around the table at EU institutions.

Though Britain would no longer be bound by the European Court of Justice – one of the institutions of the European Union – it would instead be bound by the Court of Justice of the European Free Trade Association States.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 09:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
The drop in the pound vs both the dollar and the euro has stabilized, ...

Quote NY Times, (as quoted by Walter)
Quote:
Worries about the economic impact of leaving the European Union hit Britain's property market and drove the pound to a new 31-year low on Tuesday


Okay, let's check the value of the pound and euro before the Brexit vote, two days after the vote, and now.

6/20/16 - Before Brexit
Euro..........$1.132
Pound.......$1.469

6/29/16-A few days after Brexit
Euro.........$1.102
Pound......$1.322

Today
Euro.........$1.113
Pound......$1.307

The Pound plunged almost 15¢ right after the vote, but only 1.5¢ in the last week. I call that essentially stabilized, don't you?

As for the BIG, HUGE disruption in the world markets we've been told is underway, let's take a look at the Dow in the past month:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Dow%20fpr%20june%202016_zpsqmylsmbu.jpg

Heck, for that matter, let's take a look at the last month of the UK stock market, the FTSE:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/UK%20stock%20market%20%20june%202016_zpsjkxbeinv.jpg

So where is this big calamity everyone was talking about? How the economic world is going to suffer a huge setback, all the riots, the worldwide gnashing of teeth? Even the normally super-skittish stock markets are doing fine, and it's easy to scare them. So far, about 10 days past the vote, we have 10% or so drop in the value of the Pound, and not much else except a lot of people getting all excited on TV and the newspapers. And the Prime Minister resigned, which admittedly is significant, but not so unusual in the UK system of government.

This media is hyping this Brexit as bringing down the world economic system, and by sane views it is doing no such thing. And under any circumstances, it will not be an economic disaster for the UK either. Not even close.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:00 am
@Blickers,
T
Quote:
he pound, which has borne the brunt of market concerns about potential damage to the British economy, fell below $1.31 for the first time since 1985, and is now trading about 12 percent below its pre-referendum levels.
reuters, sourced above.

I really don't mind, especially, because leaving the EU isn't just and only related to currency exchange rates and trade.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:01 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

6/20/16 - Before Brexit
Euro..........$1.132
Pound.......$1.469

6/29/16-A few days after Brexit
Euro.........$1.102
Pound......$1.322

Today
Euro.........$1.113
Pound......$1.307



too true

the Euro has nearly recovered its value
the Pound is still in a bit of a mess

they got what they voted for

I wish them good luck with the results.

__

it's a great time to visit England if you're a tourist (yay McGentrix and family) and flight tickets are a terrific deal

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:07 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
it's a great time to visit England if you're a tourist (yay McGentrix and family) and flight tickets are a terrific deal
Not good at all the other way around: the UK always has been more expensive than continental Europe, but now...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:09 am
An insider's view: Ken Clarke's off-air comments on Tory leadership candidates (transcript)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:16 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
the Pound is still in a bit of a mess

It might be that the exchange rates and view on it is different here in Europe, but any media reports that the British Pound Sterlin is at lowest point since 31 years today.
Pound falls to 31-year low PUBLISHED: 09:39 GMT, 5 July 2016 | UPDATED: 15:20 GMT, 5 July 2016

Quote:
http://i68.tinypic.com/elcs9h.jpg
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
facts are facts

we've got some financial analysts on the block and in our extended circle
they're not recommending investments in the pound (or gold) these days
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 5 Jul, 2016 10:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I still have some Euros from my trip to Europe several decades ago. Will I have gained value? And if so, by how much?
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 01/04/2025 at 05:39:40