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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 04:48 pm
@georgeob1,
British colonies and when they gained independence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:21 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Actually Britain did have a number of colonies or overseas territories when it joined the EU, though I don't know their exact legal status. Here I include Bermuda, The Falkland Islands, The British Virgin Islands and others.
That had been regulated: see my wikiprdedia -link above.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:25 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I suspect the issue in the UK has more to do with the contemporary facts attendant to that free movement within the EU than the Idea of it decades ago when the Treaty was signed. Moreover, subsequent EU actions regarding asylum and the admission of refugees, coupled with that free movement, have changed the reality significantly. Ultimately the EU itself is responsible for the consequences of the decisions it makes in that area. I believe this is a political issue today in Germany as well as in the UK.
No doubt.
The UK wanted the Poles citizens earlier than other countries because they needed them.
Asylum and refugees is a different question than free movement of EU-citizens.
But xenophobia is a topic (not only on the political level) in Germany as well as in other EU-countries.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 10:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But xenophobia is a topic (not only on the political level) in Germany as well as in other EU-countries.


and then the strange thing happens that when a blond and blueeyed Scandinavian is told to "go back where you came from" it is racism
and when the same person is against EU s/he is a racist.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:05 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:
and then the strange thing happens that when a blond and blueeyed Scandinavian is told to "go back where you came from" it is racism
and when the same person is against EU s/he is a racist.
Where is being against the EU called racism?
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Being against EU is not racism
But the ones being against it are called right winged extremists, racist, that you can see and hear in more than one country.
The 52% of the Brits voting for Brexit certainly were called names,
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jun, 2016 11:15 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:
But the ones being against it are called right winged extremists, racist, that you can see and hear in more than one country.
The 52% of the Brits voting for Brexit certainly were called names,
Some of them might be such, many here in Germany are so.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 05:53 am
@Walter Hinteler,

The New York Times has today a very good article, which explains a lot for those not so familiar with the EU:

The E.U. Is Democratic. It Just Doesn’t Feel That Way.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 06:19 am
My forecast?

Gove will be next PM.

Leadsome and May will have prominent positions in the next Gorvernment.

Hopefully, Gisela Stuart will play a prominent role as well.



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 06:34 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Gove will be next PM.
You really think so? After his "success" as Secretary of State for Education, Chief Whip and the lies he told during the last weeks?

I suppose, Leadsome or May will lead the Conservatives.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 08:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote Walter:
Quote:
Perhaps really a new "EU-" treaty should be made.
This free movement had been in the EU even before the UK became a member.
So? Not relevant. The UK is no longer going to be a member, therefore not obligated to enforce free immigration-which even you admit is not completely unfettered even among EU countries. You say Germany has 5% migrants? This chart illustrates the UK is in a different position:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/UK%20immigrants_zpsraof0jqx.jpg
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-overview


Former colonies India and Pakistan alone bring in a tremendous number of immigrants. To bring in the amounts from the EU that they are presently is really pushing it. If a deal can be struck about trade and tariffs, I'm sure the UK might be willing to take in some EU immigrants to a negotiated degree. You say it hasn't been done yet within the EU, but the UK will no longer be in the EU but wants a treaty to negotiate tariffs downward on both ends in exchange for certain considerations. As the UK is the country with the fifth largest economy in the world, these considerations can benefit the EU greatly.

I realize that your personal answer is likely to be no, because you view the EU as a static entity with unbending rules. Other more flexible EU members might not view it as such. The UK will be an outside party to the EU, and as such the EU can negotiate any trade or immigration agreement it wants with it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 08:39 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The UK is no longer going to be a member, therefore not obligated to enforce free immigration
At least for the next two years, the UK is a member of the EU.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 08:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Okay, but I believe the negotiations taking place will also deal with the EU and UK relationship after that two year period.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 08:54 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
You say Germany has 5% migrants?
Actually, I interpolated: in 2014, 20.3% of the German population had a "migration background" = immigrants and their children. That's 16.4 million persons, out of those 9.2 million are German and 7.2 foreigners.

From your quoted source:
Quote:
The EU countries hosting the largest number of EU migrants in 2010 were Germany (3.7 million), Spain (2.5 million), France (2.4 million), the UK (2.2 million) and Italy (1.2 million).


The free movement is for EU-citizens - perhaps I've missed to note that.

It has been made clear today by the candidates for the post of the leader of the Conservatives/new PM that Brexit means Brexit.
I've never said different.


I don't think the EU-rules are totally unbending. But I'm sure that changing the basic and key rules would need a totally new organisation.
Even if not - such needs unanimity, and more than one of 27 remaining countries will oppose.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 08:56 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Okay, but I believe the negotiations taking place will also deal with the EU and UK relationship after that two year period.
To all what I've heard/read from both sides ... others have a disbelief here.

Quote:
Once the article 50 trigger is pulled, the EU council of ministers will by qualified majority voting agree a negotiation mandate, in the form of directives to the commission.

They will have to agree on the terms for divorce, essentially a set of instructions and red lines for the European commission, which would be in charge of managing talks. The process is designed to give the EU the upper hand over the departing state, according to Andrew Duff, a former Liberal Democrat MEP, who helped devise article 50. “We could not allow a seceding state to spin things out for too long. The clause puts most of the cards in the hands of those that stay in.”

The full scale of the task facing Whitehall will become clear. The UK will have to renegotiate 80,000 pages of EU agreements, deciding those to be kept in UK law and those to jettison. British officials have said privately that nobody knows how long this would take, but some ministers say it would clog up parliament for years.
Source
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
As UK still is and will be a member for the next two years why is it then treated as if it left the 24th.
Junker yeall at a British member to "get out of here".
Cameron is not allowed to take part in meetings
Merkel did not invite UK /Cameron) to the discussion only France and Italy.
I really have the impression Junker and Merkel are happy to see United Kingdom go and the Scandinavians are sad.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:09 am
Sweden had 21,5% foreigners or foreign born people 2014
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:12 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
As UK still is and will be a member for the next two years why is it then treated as if it left the 24th.
Junker yeall at a British member to "get out of here".
Cameron is not allowed to take part in meetings
Merkel did not invite UK /Cameron) to the discussion only France and Italy.
I really have the impression Junker and Merkel are happy to see United Kingdom go and the Scandinavians are sad.


The "discussion" in Berlin had been scheduled a long time before, the "founding memebrs" or just some of them meet regularly.

I do think it to be look a bit funny if Cameron had joined a meeting with the purpose how deal with the Brexit. (Besides you, no on else complained about it.)

Junker addressed Farage. When you look at the list of his attendence at aprliament seatings and his contributions ... these sentences by Junker are somehow understandable (and were shared by the vast majority of MEP's.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:20 am
A lot of data and graphs, including the related laws and degrees: Migration and migrant population statistics (eurostat)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:33 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
Sweden had 21,5% foreigners or foreign born people 2014
I don't doubt that at all. And Luxembourg's population is 44.5% of foreign nationality, and 23.8% of the total population of Switzerland are foreign residents.

But again: I mean with free movement here just and only that more than 50 years old right, which is one of the four pillars of the Single Market.
(Today, it derives from Title V of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, which regulates the “Area of freedom, security and justice”.)
0 Replies
 
 

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