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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 12:41 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Has anybody offered any deal yet?

No, the UK has officially send a note that they want to cancel the membership.
That will be done, when they've got a new PM and cabinet. The two year period start from then onwards.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 12:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote cicerone imposter:
Quote:
No. Trade is about comparative advantage. It's where one country can produce something more efficiently than the other country that can be used for trade. It has to do with quality and price; scarcity, price and demand.

Okay. So what does this have to do with whether or not it is in the interests of the EU to make a special deal with the UK to minimize such issues as tariffs, etc.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 12:45 pm
@Blickers,
How can I or would I answer such a stupid question. I'm not in the EU. I can only observe what goes on between the countries of the EU. It's their ball game.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 12:47 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Okay. So what does this have to do with whether or not it is in the interests of the EU to make a special deal with the UK to minimize such issues as tariffs, etc.
The main problem is "immigration". But free movement between EU-countries is a key foundation of the EU.
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 12:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Okay, here's a proposal, (somehow I doubt this will get to the ears that can implement it, but what the hell)....

Some countries are former colonial powers who have a moral obligation to have a large quota for people coming in from their former colonies. How about if the number of people from your former colonies is subtracted from the number of EUpeople you have to allow in the country? It doesn't have to be a one-to-one ratio. Maybe something like X numbers of immigrants from former colonies means that ¾ X numbers of people are subtracted from the EU immigrants coming in. Or ½X is subtracted. Something like that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:05 pm
@Blickers,
Perhaps really a new "EU-" treaty should be made.
This free movement had been in the EU even before the UK became a member.

Interestingly, at the expansion of the EU including Poland on 1 May 2004, the UK granted free movement to workers from the new member states ... as the first EU-country. (Germany only did so five years later.)

Of course it can by changed - but that's like you joined an already football league, than after a couple of years decide that all the other should play according to your own cricket rules.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:08 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
But whatever: talks will start in October (it seems), we can speculate here a lot, perhaps someone takes our advice then.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The referendum is not binding (Parliament has to agree). The PM has announced his rsignation. No-one knows, who will become the new leader of the Conservative and the new PM, Labour is still destroying itself and not functioning at all, on a nearly hourly basis someone from the Leave-campaign is paddling back, Scotland tries to become independent and a new EU-member ...

Fortunately, no-one has beaten Drake's drum yet - but perhaps it really would be better for the UK, he would return to defend the country Wink
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:19 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Are there any limits at all to immigration within the EU? I mean, what if millions of French and Germans decide to move to Malta or Luxembourg?
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:25 pm
Nicola Sturgeon has said the SNP should be the official Opposition party. predictably this was rejected.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:30 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Are there any limits at all to immigration within the EU? I mean, what if millions of French and Germans decide to move to Malta or Luxembourg?
There are no limits because it is no immigration but a movement - never have been any. (Nearly a million Britons living in Spain are a number as well.)

There are some countries, which introduced limits about jobless money, social benefits etc (You must have worked a certain period, stayed in that country for a certain period etc) [Families where one is in the British forces, can decide if the want the British child support and the equivalent German 'Kindergeld' - they take the German version because it's a lot more)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
There were an estimated 1.2 million UK-born people living in other EU countries in 2015. Most of them live in Spain, Ireland and France. There were also an estimated 3 million people from other EU countries living in the UK.

More than 5 million EU-citizens (excluding dual-nationalities) lived in Germany in 2015. (About 100,000 UK-citizens, excluded are member of the British forces and their families.)
Blickers
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 01:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
OK, so from the UK's perspective, they give to the EU 1.2 Million people, but get back 3 Million. But there is also the issue of a great many former British colonies have people emigrating to Britain too, and that should be taken into account. I think the UK has a moral reason to have a high quota of allowing these people to emigrate to their once "mother" country. This is an issue most other EU nations don't have.

Don't forget, we are not talking about the UK rejoining the EU, we are talking about hammering out a treaty where trade between the UK and the EU would be enhanced in return for the UK agreeing to follow some EU rules. I don't see why any treaty has to allow entirely open immigration from the EU to allow lowering tariffs, after all, the UK is not a part of the EU, just a country that it is in the interests of the EU to make a treaty with.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 02:03 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
OK, so from the UK's perspective, they give to the EU 1.2 Million people, but get back 3 Million. But there is also the issue of a great many former British colonies have people emigrating to Britain too, and that should be taken into account.
Why? And why not be other EU-member countries, for instance the founding member France and Italy?
What about Germany? We got more than 3 million former German citizens from (mainly) the former Sovjet Republics?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 02:04 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Don't forget, we are not talking about the UK rejoining the EU, we are talking about hammering out a treaty where trade between the UK and the EU would be enhanced in return for the UK agreeing to follow some EU rules.
But that is not the actual situation.

Quote:
Article 50

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 02:15 pm
@Blickers,
Actually, after having thought about your response, I don't understand it even more.

The UK didn't have any colonies when they joint the UK.
All sides knew this (if it was a problem) and all know about the free movement (Later, they got the special right, not to join Schengen.)

The EU funds a lot (not only in the UK) for various "problem zones, regions ... .
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 02:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Related, with some more, here before not mentioned, information;
Special member state territories and the European Union
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 03:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Noone in Britain attends shitty forums (except me and Tes, and he's moving to Scotland soon) Your advice is pointless.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 03:26 pm
@Blickers,
Free movent means UNLIMITED, UNREGULATED movement.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 29 Jun, 2016 04:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I suspect the issue in the UK has more to do with the contemporary facts attendant to that free movement within the EU than the Idea of it decades ago when the Treaty was signed. Moreover, subsequent EU actions regarding asylum and the admission of refugees, coupled with that free movement, have changed the reality significantly. Ultimately the EU itself is responsible for the consequences of the decisions it makes in that area. I believe this is a political issue today in Germany as well as in the UK.

Actually Britain did have a number of colonies or overseas territories when it joined the EU, though I don't know their exact legal status. Here I include Bermuda, The Falkland Islands, The British Virgin Islands and others.
 

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