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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 16 Oct, 2019 11:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The DUP has issued a statement from Arlene Foster and Nigel Dodds.

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/kJWEj4s.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 12:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It is worth remembering that the DUP is the party that says no. "No surrender" was its slogan in its heyday when it was led by its bombastic founder, the now deceased Ian Paisley.

It is also worth remembering that it did not support the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement in 1998.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 01:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/XOXkxPM.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 04:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
So there is a/the deal:
*EU law on VAT will apply in Northern Ireland.
*UK shall be responsible for collecting VAT and excise.
*Special treatment for some goods - UK could choose to apply Ireland's VAT reduced rates and exemptions in NI.
*Regular review by Joint Committee

While Corbyn claims that the deal is'even worse than Theresa May's.
And it seems to a Brexit deal with the EU without DUP support.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 05:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
From Barnier's press-conference:

Barnier says there is a possibility that goods arriving from GB, or from a third country via GB, might not stay in the customs territory of NI. That risk exists. That is why both sides have come up with a mechanism to assess this risk. The assessment will be based on a number of critieria, overseen by a joint committee. What is the destination of the goods? Are they consumer goods or industrial goods? What is the value of the goods? What is the risk of an infringement?

Barnier says the taoiseach had a special responsibility. The Irish government is a co-guarantor of the Good Friday agreement. He met Boris Johnson in Liverpool. And after that meeting the UK and the EU were able to make headway. They agreed there would be no customs checks in Ireland or Northern Ireland.

On VAT, Barnier says an agreement was reached overnight. There was an issue with the need for consistency on VAT rates. A mechanism to ensure this was agreed. The EU system would apply in Northern Ireland. For businesses, it is logical to have consistency, as with the single market for goods.

On consent, he says the new protocol would be supported democratically. At the end of the transition period there would be a four-year period for the new arrangements to be in force. At the end of that the members of the Northern Ireland assembly would vote, on the basis of a simple majority, for the arrangement to continue for another four years. If there were a cross-community vote in favour, it would continue for eight years. If there were a vote to end the arrangements, there would be a two-year cooling off period.

He says this new approach has nothing to do with the old backstop. It sets up a system in Northern Ireland that is sustainable. It is linked to regular, democratic verification. There is ownership of this in Northern Ireland. We now must place our trust in the system, he says.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 05:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The text of the agreement is >here< (pdf, 64 pages).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 05:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Rumours are out that Johnson will tell EU leaders that it’s this deal or no deal - but no delays. He will not ask for a extension and will not accept one if offered.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 05:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to an exclusive Bloomberg report, DUP won't vote for Boris Johnson's deal.

EU and U.K. Reach Agreement on Brexit But the DUP Still Says No
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 06:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
DUP says it won't vote for deal because it 'drives coach and horses' through Good Friday agreement

https://i.imgur.com/dLkF39H.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/Z3niPNi.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 06:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
In an extraordinary Saturday sitting, the first since 1982, parliament will vote on approving Johnson’s deal.

The only topic will be "Brexit".
If the new Brexit deal is approved, Johnson can proceed with his plan to leave the EU on Oct. 31.
If rejected, he may seek approval to leave the EU without a deal on Oct. 31.

As far as it's known by now, the Democratic Unionist Party said it could not and will not support the deal.
The opposition Labour Party, the Scottish National Party and the Liberal Democrats have all said they will oppose it.

If JOHNSON loses votes on both a deal and no deal, he is required by law to write a letter to the EU requesting more negotiating time, delaying Brexit until Jan. 31 2020.

The government has said that it will both comply with this law and that Britain will leave the EU on Oct. 31 whatever happens.
Johnson has not explained how he plans to take these two apparently contradictory steps.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 06:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, explained a few minutes ago in the Commons:
Quote:
The debate that follows will be a motion to either approve a deal or to approve a no-deal exit.

That debate on one or other of those motions would run for up to 90 minutes under the existing rules of this House.

In the event of a motion to approve a deal that motion, if passed, will meet the terms both of the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act [aka, the Benn Act] and of section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 07:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs approved the government’s plan to hold a special sitting of parliament on Saturday to vote on Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal.

But MPs also approved a change to the rules of Saturday’s debate which will allow multiple amendments to be put forward for a possible vote.
This could allow ideas like making acceptance of the deal conditional on a second referendum to be tested in parliament.
The government was opposed to the rule change, but lost a vote on it by 287 to 275.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 12:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

How is Boris Johnson's Brexit deal different from Theresa May's?


In short: the backstop has been replaced by a full stop whereby Northern Ireland remains aligned to the EU from the end of the transition period for at least four years.
Vut the linked Guardian report (above) has got it more edetailed.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 01:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The EU legislature will take its full time to carefully examine and approve any divorce deal for the UK, the European Parliament’s chief Brexit official has said. Guy Verhofstadt has said the process could spill past 31 October, when the UK is currently scheduled to leave the EU.

He has said MEPs will only start their work once the UK’s parliament has passed a fully binding Brexit deal. If that slips past the European plenary session next week, it could well have to be picked up in the session that begins on 13 November.

Any EU-UK Brexit withdrawal deal needs the official backing of both the British and European Parliaments. Verhofstadt said the parliament “will only start its work from the moment that we are 100% sure that the British Parliament will adopt this deal”.
The Guardian
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 17 Oct, 2019 02:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Brexit Will Never Be Over
The British system of government as we know it has collapsed.
DAVID FRUM, 3:00 AM ET

On Monday morning, the queen put on her crown and reading glasses to deliveran 11-page speech from the throne in the House of Lords. Scenes do not get more British than this: Horse Guards clopping down the avenues; diamonds glinting in the TV lights. Following customs that have been obsolete for decades, if not centuries, the prime minister and his cabinet stood, on foot, shoved into a corner to hear the words they themselves had put into the monarch’s mouth. Everything looked much as everything has looked for as long as anyone can remember. So it’s quite weird to absorb how utterly the British system of government has collapsed.

The basic rule of the British system is that the prime minister commands a majority in the House of Commons. Lose that majority, and you have to stop being prime minister. In the 19th century, that tended to mean handing the job over to somebody else. In the 20th century, it meant calling an election. In the 21st century, it has meant … well, what does it mean?

Boris Johnson became prime minister in July. He met Parliament for the first time in September—and promptly lost his first vote. Over the next five days, he lost five more, each on an essential issue.

Johnson tried to sidestep his loss of control by proroguing Parliament. His opponents challenged him in court and won, forcing Monday’s ceremonial reopening. The queen’s speech is traditionally followed by a vote. As things are going, Johnson looks likely to lose that vote, too. After expelling 21 Conservatives from his own caucus to punish them for prior rebellions, he can count on only 288 votes in the House of Commons, 32 short of a majority.

At any previous moment in British history, Johnson’s government would have fallen by now and an election would have been called. But Britain amended its law in 2011 to fix parliamentary terms at approximately five years, unless two-thirds of Parliament voted for an early election. The idea was to ensure stability. Instead, the fixed-term amendment has created a political ghost land: a government lacking democratic legitimacy, but also unable to put itself out of its own misery. (One of the votes Johnson lost was a vote for early elections.)

Andrew Cooper, the pollster and strategist to former Prime Minister David Cameron, offers one explanation as to why Britain cannot form a stable government.

Twenty years ago, the safest Conservative seats in the country were mostly economically secure and mostly ethnically English. The safest Labour seats in the country were mostly economically distressed and ethnically diverse. The two parties would then battle for the votes of everybody else, but the clash between the economically secure English and the distressed and diverse provided the main battlefront of British politics.

Over the past two decades, this map of politics has lost relevance. Only 9 percent of British people still strongly identify with a political party. Old partisan identities have faded before a sharp new bifurcation, Leave versus Remain. Almost 90 percent of British voters identify with these new ideological categories; 44 percent do so strongly. This new bifurcation has rotated the old political map. Leave is strongest where voters are distressed and ethnically English. Remain is strongest where voters are economically secure and diverse. The old parties are struggling to find their footing in the new heartlands.

By committing to Leave, the Conservatives have acquired new supporters who want more government protection from the rigors of globalism—even as the party’s own internal justification for Brexit was to rip up EU regulations, shrink the British state, and reposition Britain as more global, not less. With the government determined to Leave, the opposition Labour Party should logically speak for Remain. But under the left-sectarian leadership of Jeremy Corbyn, Labour does not want the voters who would be attracted to a Remain message. This has left Labour with no coherent message at all on the single most important issue facing the country.

The result is a paralytic muddle, in which Labour snubs its most natural voters and Conservatives plot to betray theirs.

The next few days will see a sequence of dramatic events in British politics. The timeline is confusing; the outcomes are unpredictable. But it’s a good guess that Johnson will pull a rabbit out of a hat, procure something that can be sold as a deal, and put himself on the road to the election he wants. Johnson and his advisers hope that once they put Brexit behind them, they can return to the familiar politics of rich versus poor, Thatcherism versus socialism, up versus down. Jeremy Corbyn and his Marxoid advisers hope the same thing. They will all be disappointed. They are talking about yesterday’s issues in tomorrow’s world. Brexit will never be over, not even if Britain quits the European Union, because the discontents who caused Brexit will still seethe the day after Brexit—and probably more than ever.

DAVID FRUM is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic. In 2001 and 2002, he was a speechwriter for President George W. Bush.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/brexit-will-never-be-over/600184/
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 18 Oct, 2019 06:38 am
@Olivier5,
https://i.imgur.com/r98GLfp.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 18 Oct, 2019 07:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Tory Brexiter John Baron told the BBC this morning that ministers like Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, have told him that, if the trade talks with the EU do not produce a deal by the end of next year, the UK would leave the transition and trade with the EU on no-deal (ie, WTO) terms.

The People’s Vote campaign said, Baron’s comment show that the government is not sincere about wanting a trade deal and that is is preparing for a no-deal Brexit at the end of next year.

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/G202aMo.jpg
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 18 Oct, 2019 07:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Amazingly well done too; they must have used some GPS-hooked tractor to plow the letters so regularly...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 18 Oct, 2019 07:46 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Amazingly well done too; they must have used some GPS-hooked tractor to plow the letters so regularly...



https://i.imgur.com/O1VKgTNl.jpg
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1185087759448449024&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburyjournal.co.uk%2Fnews%2F17978583.wiltshire-farmland-used-send-brexit-message-campaigners-led-donkeys%2F
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 18 Oct, 2019 09:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
With a view to the Brexit, the British government turned to German companies with a newspaper advert. "You want to continue trading goods with the United Kingdom after the Brexit? Then take action now," says the full-page advertisement in German, which appeared in the Süddeutsche Zeitung and Handelsblatt today.

Below is the address of a website providing information for companies based in the EU outside the UK. Here it says: "Get ready for the Brexit". Apparently, the British government is certain that there will be a withdrawal from the EU by 31 October: the ad is titled "Brexit 31 October".

https://i.imgur.com/5DlCPBU.jpg
 

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