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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 3 Sep, 2019 10:01 pm
@Lash,
The MPs voted to seize control of Commons timetable in attempt to block no-deal Brexit-
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 3 Sep, 2019 10:52 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I guess I’ll have to read some kind Brit papers.


https://i.imgur.com/NTbQaTW.jpg

Lash wrote:
These days in Parliament should be recorded for posterity


https://i.imgur.com/0mmKNhr.jpg
The leader of the House of Commons was accused by many of showing contempt for parliament as he reclined on the green benches.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 3 Sep, 2019 10:55 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I heard that some MPs are sacrificing their ability to stand for the next election due to a Johnson threat.
Twenty-one Tory MPs, including Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond and Nicholas Soames, who had served their country with an honour and integrity to which Boris could only aspire, had been as good as their word and put country before self.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 3 Sep, 2019 11:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
We don't have such a system here in Germany. (Why it can't happen in Germany)

Britain’s Reichstag Fire moment
Quote:
Weimar warns us about what happens when politicians give up on their own parliaments—as one of our most distinguished historians argues in this exclusive essay

So, from here it looks like: the government wants to shut down parliamentary democracy, claiming it is acting for the good of parliamentary democracy. And from within No 10 the aide Dominic Cummings threatens to end the career of elected MPs.


0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 12:28 am
@Lash,
Have you cheered up the pro-democracy demonstrators in London yet? :-)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 04:00 am
@Olivier5,
Britain's Frost not seen proposing new ideas to replace Brexit backstop
Quote:
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - British Brexit negotiator David Frost is not expected to offer new ideas to replace the Irish backstop when he arrives in Brussels for talks with the European Union on Wednesday, British and European diplomats and officials said.

The question of whether Prime Minister Boris Johnson has a new plan to reach a deal with the EU or is bluffing to run out the clock before an abrupt exit goes to the heart of the political crisis in London, where opponents of an exit with no deal have seized control of parliamentary business to stop it.

British and EU sources both said there might be nothing of substance on offer during Frost’s visit, but gave different reasons for why this would be the case.

A British official said London was unwilling to put anything on the table for fear it would be swiftly shot down. Europeans, for their part, said they were skeptical whether Britain had any new proposals to offer at all.

Johnson demands the EU ditch the “backstop” provision of a deal reached with his predecessor Theresa May, which would require Britain to obey some EU rules until another mechanism can be found to keep the border on the island of Ireland open.

The House of Commons defeated him on Tuesday in a bid to prevent him taking Britain out of the EU without a divorce agreement on Oct.31. Johnson responded by announcing he would push for a snap election.

Johnson says he wants a deal but needs a credible threat of a no-deal exit to force the Europeans to compromise at the last minute, during a summit in mid-October.

The bloc says the backstop could be abandoned only if an alternative is found that would achieve the same ends, be legally sound and practically applicable straight away. It has put the onus on Johnson’s cabinet to come up with alternatives.

The British official said London was expecting creativity and a joint endeavor from the bloc’s side.

The EU’s executive Commission - which is negotiating Brexit for the 27 other member states - complained on Tuesday that Britain was procrastinating.

“That is because these semi-negotiations is a bluff. The British don’t have alternative arrangements, they are playing for time,” said one EU diplomat present at the Commission’s closed-door briefing.

A senior EU diplomat added: “The British position is strange. They have put precisely zero proposals on the table so how can they have any grounds for fearing they will be shot down other than the British themselves knowing that their likely proposals are inadequate.”

The Commission will also present on Wednesday its updated contingency plans for a no-deal Brexit, which would include making a natural disaster fund available to people, businesses and countries weighing under ensuing disruptions.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 04:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Has this ever happened before?
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 04:31 am
@Olivier5,
Are there demonstrations in London?
(I mean, your comment sounds like a one-liner, but making sure. Seems to be at a fever pitch over there.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 05:30 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Has this ever happened before?
That MPs voted to seize control of Commons timetable? The central principle in the UK constitution is parliamentary sovereignty, so it certainly will have happened.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 05:33 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Are there demonstrations in London?
In London every day since Johnson became PM - last weekend there were additionally anti-prorogation protests in 30 cities and towns over England and Wales with ten thousands of demonstrators.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Cross-party group of 40 MEPs sign pledge to work together to keep EU membership on the table
Quote:
The MEP delegations of Labour, Greens, Liberal Democrats, Alliance, Plaid Cymru, and the SNP will formally cooperate

Remain-supporting British MEPs have formed a new cross-party alliance and pledged to work together in the face of Brexit and Boris Johnson's suspension of parliament.

The pact, named the Brussels Declaration, unites the EU delegations of Labour, Greens, Liberal Democrats, Alliance, Plaid Cymru, and the SNP - with the aim of "keeping the door open" to EU membership.

The declaration puts down in writing the informal alliance that has formed among pro-EU British MEPs since the referendum - where cross-party working has been the norm in efforts to oppose the British government.

"The proroguing, or shutting down the UK Parliament in order to limit scrutiny of the implications of a potential no deal Brexit is completely unacceptable. Limiting the opportunity for MPs to debate, vote and crucially, to legislate, cannot be the response to a referendum in which Leave campaigned for the UK Parliament to 'take back control'," the MEPs' declaration says.

"In the continuation of the spirit that UK MEPs have worked in since the 2016 Referendum we commit ourselves to continue to work across party lines and declare that it is vital that MPs do likewise. We were all elected just four months ago with clear mandates. We are working together. We call upon our European friends and colleagues to assist domestic efforts in keeping the door open to us."

The loose declaration could be a model for pro-EU opposition parties hoping to cooperate back in Westminster. Efforts to build a "remain alliance" in UK national elections have floundered so far - with pro-referendum parties even unable to agree a single candidate for the recent Peterborough by-election.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs have voted to give the bill to stop a no-deal Brexit on 31 October a second reading by 329 votes to 300 – a majority of 29.

That majority is two bigger than last night (when the SO24 motion was passed by 328 votes to 301).

Johnson gambled but he didn't expect so much resistance from his own party.

And if his motion for new elections is rejected later tonight as well, the PM will be pretty much on its own ... And he'll sit in the soup, since who will make deals with a PM without power?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 12:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs pass bill to prevent no deal amid confusion over amendment to put May's deal back on table
They have given the Benn bill its third reading by 327 votes to 299 - a majority of 28 (At second reading the majority in favour was 29.).
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 01:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
BREAKING NEWS
British lawmakers voted in favor of a bill to avert a “no-deal” Brexit, a second rebuke of Prime Minister Boris Johnson in two days.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 01:11 pm
@tsarstepan,
I wanted to say that with my above post.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 04:32 pm
Fascinating times. Lots to read. My kids remarked today that Johnson looks ‘a lot’ like Trump.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 04:49 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Are there demonstrations in London? 


Yes, quite massive.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:49 pm
@Olivier5,
https://i.imgur.com/WSBdO0f.jpg

Quote:
The House of Lords has voted in favour of getting the Benn bill ruling out a no-deal Brexit through all stages of parliament before it is suspended by Boris Johnson.

Around 1.30am on Thursday following late-night debate, peers passed a business motion and were told the bill – which has been passed by rebel Tories and opposition MPs in the Commons – would be returned to the lower house by 5pm on Friday, ruling out the prospect of attempts at a filibuster.

It could then be voted on again by MPs on Monday and presented for royal assent, the Lords heard. Peers are set to debate the Benn bill itself and amendments on Thursday.
The Guardian
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 5 Sep, 2019 12:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
UK government gives up trying to stop Brexit delay bill in parliament
Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government abandoned attempts in the upper house of parliament to block a law aimed at stopping the country from leaving the European Union without a deal.

The move paved the way for Johnson being required to ask the EU for a three-month extension to the Brexit deadline, if he fails to reach a renegotiated transition deal with the bloc by the middle of October.

Johnson has said he is opposed to an extension and that he is prepared to take Britain out of the EU without a deal if necessary.

Conservative Party members of the upper house of parliament had tabled a series of amendments in an attempt to run down the clock on the delay bill and prevent it being passed before parliament is suspended on Monday.

But in the early hours of Thursday, the government in the upper house, known as the House of Lords, announced it was dropping its opposition to the legislation.

Richard Newby, an opposition member of the Lords, who had taken his duvet to parliament in preparation to spend the night discussing the law, said the government dropped its opposition after suffering heavy defeats on some of the proposed amendments.

“There was a realization by those on the other side that this was more than usually stupid, and they were looking stupid, and we needed to find a way forward,” he told BBC Radio.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2019 08:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Remember though that the very same parliament that is now trying to block a no-deal exit has voted AGAINST the deal on the table, not once, not twice but THREE TIMES.

So they don't want no deal and they also don't want this deal. The problem is that they can't agree on the deal they actually do want. And even if the British MPs could agree among themselves on the shape of an agreeable EU-UK deal, the 27 other states in the EU would still need to get on board... which is far from given.

No end in sight yet, I'm afraid.
 

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