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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 25 May, 2019 07:34 am
@Olivier5,
EU citizens denied vote in European elections to sue UK government
Quote:
The government is facing the prospect of being sued by campaigners for EU citizens in the UK and British nationals abroad who were denied a vote in the European parliament elections.

John Halford, a public law specialist at Bindmans, said this week’s electoral fiasco was something a democracy should not tolerate.

“The right to vote is the foundation for all citizenship rights,” he said. “Last Thursday saw a large-scale, systematic, openly discriminatory denial of that right. The case we plan to bring will show that this is not something the law will tolerate and that there must be accountability and consequences.”

Halford is working with the the3million group in the UK, which campaigns for the rights of EU citizens after Brexit, and British in Europe, which campaigns for Britons settled elsewhere in the bloc.

A crowd-funding campaign was launched on Saturday to finance the legal case, which is being urgently explored in consultation with barristers, including Anneli Howard and Dinah Rose, who conducted a BBC investigation into abuse allegations against Jimmy Savile.

Rose, known as the tiger of the bar, represented the Guardian in its successful case overturning a gag on publishing Prince Charles’s secret letters four years ago, one of a series of legal victories over government secrecy that have elevated her public profile.

Howard, a barrister at Monckton chambers, has said it could be argued that there were multiple breaches of EU treaties, including article 20 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, which states that EU nationals have “the right to vote … under the same conditions as nationals of that state [of residence]”.

They are exploring their legal options and said a judicial review test case “to expose the discrimination in all its forms and clearly rule that it was unlawful” was likely.

If successful, they will seek to raise £100,000 and explore how to take cases on behalf of individuals “to seek compensation for unequal treatment, emotional distress and out-of-pocket expenses”.

Many EU citizens were turned away from polling stations with their names crossed off the ballot while Britons overseas protested that their ballot papers only showed in the days before or did not show up at all.

The Guardian has received almost 1,000 case stories from EU citizens and Britons abroad, both in Europe and from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Japan.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 26 May, 2019 08:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Swedish embassy tours UK by bus to give reassurance over Brexit
Quote:
Sweden is embarking on a tour of the United Kingdom to reassure its 100,000 expatriates and British-based Swedish businesses worried about the threats posed by a hard Brexit.

Torbjörn Sohlström, the Swedish ambassador to the UK, said thousands of Swedes in the UK were very concerned about their right to remain in the UK and that “taking this pop-up embassy to them across the country will hopefully reassure them”.

Sohlström, who kicked off the two-week tour in Brighton on Saturday by inviting the Brighton Gay Men’s Chorus to sing Abba hits 45 years after the Swedish foursome won Eurovision in the town with Waterloo in 1974, said the UK-wide bus trip was as as much about trying to reassure Swedish businesses as it was Swedish people in the UK.

“Swedish companies believe in the UK, but I know of quite a lot of investments that are not taking place because of the uncertainty,” he said. “I speak to most of the big Swedish companies, and I know that there are investment decisions that are not happening. All the big Swedish companies are delaying because of the uncertainty. This is very worrying.”

Sohlström, who was appointed ambassador to the UK before the referendum but took up his post after the June 2016 vote, said concerns raised by Swedish people and businesses were being echoed in the embassies of the other EU 27 countries outside the UK.

“It is similar for every embassy,” he said. “Even if there are guarantees that people will continue to have the right to remain there are a lots of questions about citizens rights. It is terribly complicated, and the people feel reassured speaking to authorities.”

Sohlström said concerns among Swedes was heightened last week when many were among thousands of UK-based EU nationals who were unable to vote on Thursday in the European elections . “We are concerned to hear that a number of Swedes were not able to vote in the UK European parliament elections, despite having done everything they could to register.”

More than 1,000 Swedish companies have operations in the UK, employing more than 100,000 UK workers. The biggest Swedish companies in the UK are Ikea, which employs 12,000 people, clothing company H&M and security firm Securitas.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 27 May, 2019 12:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The outcome of the EU-elections seems to confirm that the UK's electorate is evenly divided as well as polarised:
- overall, 35% of voters voted for parties comfortable with no deal (the Brexit Party and UKIP).
- equally, 35% backed one of the three UK-wide parties that supported a second referendum.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 10:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I believe the polarization to which you referred has become increasingly common throughout the Western world. Certainly it exists un the United States, largely driven by a lurch to the far left by our Democrat Party, and aided by Trump's continuing pugnacity. The recent EU elections appear to me (though I don't claim expertise) to indicate an analogous process across the continent. The struggles between rising nationalist issues and associated political movements and the generally more Union focused Center Left & Right parties was very evident in the recent election , and the results suggest (to me) that the nationalists and far left forces generally won.

In the UK the fall of the Theresa May government and the election result indicate more of the same - relatively centrist parties lost and new players emerge on the scene. I have long sympathized with May's, perhaps unwise, struggle to negotiate an amicable Brexit, in environments ,both at home and on the continent, that were very hostile to that goal. That's behind us now and a raw BREXIT appears inevitable.

How will these converging events affect the near term political future of the EU? The absence of the UK in EU governance could well open up some frictions between France and Germany in their central roles in leading the Union and holding the fractious parts to the South and East together. Meanwhile the ongoing disputes over fiscal & economic policies, immigration, and strategic challenges in an increasingly unruly world must continue to be addressed , now with a more polarized EU Parliament. Underlying that, of course is the still unresolved boundary between "ever closer union" and the natural and understandable desire if people everywhere for local, perhaps national or regional, governance of local affairs. The EU system looks like a bureaucracy to me and, absent any constitutional or political restraints, bureaucracies always seek to expand their reach and control without limit.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 10:40 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe the polarization to which you referred has become increasingly common throughout the Western world. Certainly it exists un the United States, ...
You certainly don't have so many political parties like the UK has in Parliament and on the ballot papers.


georgeob1 wrote:
How will these converging events affect the near term political future of the EU? The absence of the UK in EU governance could well open up some frictions between France and Germany in their central roles in leading the Union and holding the fractious parts to the South and East together.
We just had the EU-elections last Sunday. In all EU-countries (including the UK) and not just in France and Germany.

georgeob1 wrote:
Underlying that, of course is the still unresolved boundary between ...
... the EU-country Ireland and the UK's Northern Ireland is the main problem. [I know that you referred to the US-view of what the EU is.]
georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 10:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We indeed have only two parties, but they change shape and policy subject to the same trends that affect the relative sizes of the more numerous parties in European governments. Recent trends, however, appear similar in both the U.S. and Europe.

The national elections, in my view affect the EU more than do its parliamentary elections, mostly involving who, as a result of them, will be leading the very complex (in my view) process of selecting people to fill the various senior offices in the EU bureaucracy (that appears to be where the power lies).

I don't think the Irish border issue is very important either way. There appear to be a number of workable alternatives already on the table.

More important, in my view, will be the longstanding North-South; East-West issues within the EU regarding fiscal & policy, immigration and other currently divisive matters.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 28 May, 2019 11:10 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I don't think the Irish border issue is very important either way. There appear to be a number of workable alternatives already on the table.

I don't see a way to avoid a hard border between NI and the Republic of Ireland.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 11:25 am
@georgeob1,
Well, to get the "leading figures" can't be done without the EU-parliament.

But it will be interesting - perhaps with a female leader (the Danish Margrethe Vestager, the incumbent European Commissioner for Competition, could become the new leader of the commission. [She's the candidate of ALDE, the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe. And since neither the Christian Democrats/Conservatives nor the Social Democrats have a majority ...]

I think that "immigration is indeed a problem in the UK and among right-wings next to the German-Polish border. (All 27 member states of the European Union agree that EU citizens and their families have freedom of movement within the EU and the European Economic Area - these citizens are privileged migrants because they don’t require individual permission from officials as other migrants do.) Immigration for non-EU-citizens is regulated by national laws.

Otherwise, the discussion is more about asylum seekers ("refugees").
The EU Common European Asylum System (CEAS) is a set of EU laws, setting out minimum standards and procedures for processing and deciding asylum applications.
But there's unfortunately a patchwork of 28 (27) asylum systems producing uneven results.

I do think the Irish border issue is very important many ways.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 28 May, 2019 11:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I do think the Irish border issue is very important many ways.


Perhaps so. My comment referred to the local effects in Ireland - I believe they are readily solvable. However that may, as you imply, leave the EU with serious unresolved concerns.

Even so I think the immigration (or more properly, asylum ) issues are far more significantly divisive issues in the EU ( and in the U.S. as well).

I don't have any impressions of the particular political perspectives of the EU Parliament, or any really decisive role it has in EU governance. That may, in part, be a result of my own lack of understanding. My strong impression is that the various national leaders have a stronger role than that of the very large (and perhaps unwieldy) EU parliament.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 12:23 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I don't have any impressions of the particular political perspectives of the EU Parliament, or any really decisive role it has in EU governance. That may, in part, be a result of my own lack of understanding. My strong impression is that the various national leaders have a stronger role than that of the very large (and perhaps unwieldy) EU parliament.
I've heard, your president tries to bypass "parliament" where possible. Similar in the EU.

livinglava
 
  0  
Tue 28 May, 2019 02:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I don't have any impressions of the particular political perspectives of the EU Parliament, or any really decisive role it has in EU governance. That may, in part, be a result of my own lack of understanding. My strong impression is that the various national leaders have a stronger role than that of the very large (and perhaps unwieldy) EU parliament.
I've heard, your president tries to bypass "parliament" where possible. Similar in the EU.

No set of rules or government structure is strong enough to prevent abuses of power by individuals at every level. Focusing on a president or other higher level officials while ignoring what lower-ranking people do to manipulate institutions in their favor presents a partial image, which obscures the broader reality of power abuse.

You should read Michel Foucault's books. He looked at power in a Nietzchean way at the level of microdynamics of human institutions, such as when people manipulate a judge to find in their favor against their enemies.

You should realize that when this kind of power manipulation of institutions is going on, 'bypassing parliament' or not is not the issue, because if someone can exercise the power to stop the president from 'bypassing parliament,' then competing power brokers will take advantage of the situation to harness parliament to their advantage against a president who's had his hands tied.

The real question is what it would take for everyone in government and outside of government to stop abusing power and start abiding by reason in good faith. This is an almost impossible hope, because too many people are too cynical to attempt to do the right thing, that is if they haven't been completely brainwashed into believing that the wrongs that have been normalized are right because they're normal.

But whether a 'president bypasses parliament' or parliament bypasses good governance, etc. the real issue is when it results in wrongdoing and when it blocks wrongdoing from occurring or at least attempts to.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 04:30 pm
@livinglava,
Our constitution sets fairly clear guidelines on the limits of the power and discretion of our Federal government, and clearly assigns all powers not specifically assigned it are left to the states. It's also true that those limits have been stretched by legislation and the creation of largely self-governing Federal Bureaucracies to administer often vaguely written laws enacted by the Federal Congress.

In the case of the EU there's no Constitutional limit (that I'm aware of) on the powers of the Central EU government. Indeed it is given the general goal of achieving an "ever closer union" among its members. This has come to mean a Central government with at least the power of ours, and expanding that power at a fairly rapid rate.

That was the central basis for my comments. I recognize that any Executive and Legislature power structure can involve efforts to evade the limits of either one by the other. In the Case of the EU it is my strong impression that the various National governments have as much or more a role in the appointment of senior officials to the largely bureaucratic governing body in Brussels than does the EU Parliament (which with ~ 750 members may be structurally less able to focus on specific key issues and policies. My knowledge of these things is limited, but it appears to me that the Executive Power in the EU is largely in the hands of a bureaucracy led by officials appointed by various compromises among its member National governments, and which is not particularly accountable to the EU Parliament
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 28 May, 2019 10:56 pm
John Bercow, the Speaker, does not want to leave his post while the Brexit dispute is still raging in parliament. This is not reasonable, he told the Guardian.
Bercov's statement will cause frustration among Brexit hardliners, because he insists that Parliament decides on the formalities of EU resignation.

John Bercow defies Eurosceptics with vow to stay on as Speaker
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 29 May, 2019 05:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Boris Johnson is to go on trial for allegedly "lying and misleading the British public" about the consequences of Brexit.

Quote:
Boris Johnson must appear in court to face allegations of lying to the British public during the Brexit referendum campaign, a judge has said. The Conservative leadership frontrunner was summonsed after a man brought a private prosecution over claims that EU membership cost the UK £350m a week.

It came after the EU slapped down Tory leadership hopefuls aiming to alter the Brexit withdrawal agreement, with European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker warning the bloc was “crystal clear” that “there will be no re-negotiation”.

Also on Wednesday, candidates to be the next prime minister promised not to “speak ill” of each other. One signatory to the initiative promoted by Dominic Raab was Matt Hancock, who pledged not to “engage in personality attacks” just a day after lashing out at Mr Johnson’s previously reported “f**k business” remarks with profanity of his own: “F**k, ‘f**k business’”.
The Independent
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 29 May, 2019 05:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Boris Johnson is to go on trial for allegedly "lying and misleading the British public" about the consequences of Brexit.

Quote:
The ruling follows a crowdfunded move to launch a private prosecution of the MP, who is currently the frontrunner in the Tory leadership contest.

Johnson lied and engaged in criminal conduct when he repeatedly claimed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign that the UK sent £350m a week to Brussels, lawyers for a 29-year-old businessman who launched the prosecution bid told Westminster magistrates court last week.

A legal team assembled by Marcus Ball, who has accused the former foreign secretary of misconduct in public office and raised more than £400,000 to finance the prosecution, laid out their case in front of the district judge, Margot Coleman.

The case concerned the “now infamous claim” by Johnson about the £350m, Lewis Power QC told the court. He said the case was not about preventing or delaying Brexit.

Coleman ruled: “The allegations which have been made are unproven accusations and I do not make any findings of fact. Having considered all the relevant factors I am satisfied that this is a proper case to issue the summons as requested for the three offences as drafted. The charges are indictable only.

“This means the proposed defendant will be required to attend this court for a preliminary hearing, and the case will then be sent to the crown court for trial. The charges can only be dealt with in the crown court.”

Acting for Johnson, Adrian Darbishire QC, told the court last week that the application by Ball had been brought for political purposes and was a “political stunt”.

Q&A
What is 'misconduct in public office'?

“Its true purpose is not that it should succeed, but that it should be made at all. And made with as much public fanfare as the prosecution can engender,” he said. “The application represents an attempt, for the first time in English legal history, to employ the criminal law to regulate the content and quality of political debate. That is self-evidently not the function of the criminal law.”

However, in her ruling on Wednesday, the judge said she was satisfied that there was a prima facie case for the allegation that there had been an abuse of the public’s trust in a holder of office.

She referred to statements provide by Ball’s team from members of the public that addressed the impact that “the apparent lie” had on them. She also cited the contention by Power that “there will seldom be a more serious misconduct against a member of parliament or mayor than to lie repeatedly to the voting public on a national and international platform, in order to win your desired outcome”.

While there was no immediate reaction from Johnson, long-term critics of the MP and opponents of Brexit hailed the ruling.

The Liberal Democrat MP Ed Davey said: “Given Boris Johnson wants to be the next prime minister of this country, it’s only right that he is held accountable for the lies he told in 2016.”
The Guardian
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 29 May, 2019 05:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Meanwhile, the EU breaks up the team that negotiated May's deal - the latest sign it will never re-open talks.
Sabine Weyand, the author of the withdrawal agreement, will move to another department, with Michel Barnier also eyeing another role.

The move of Weyand to be the new boss of the Directorate General for Trade, means that were the UK to accept the withdrawal agreement, it would also face her in negotiating its future trade deal with the EU – the next phase of talks. She will also oversee the negotiation of trade deal with the rest of the world in the post, however, the post is not Brexit-specific.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 29 May, 2019 06:45 am
That's really good...

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 29 May, 2019 01:37 pm
@Olivier5,
Government spends almost £100m on Brexit consultants
Quote:
Nearly £100m of public money has been spent on private consultancy firms recruited by the government to provide Brexit advice, including no-deal planning, a leaked Whitehall report obtained by the Guardian reveals.

The draft report by the National Audit Office (NAO), which scrutinises spending for parliament, details how government departments have paid at least £97m to Brexit consultants up to April this year and criticises them for not meeting transparency standards.

Marked “official sensitive”, the investigation warns Whitehall spending on Brexit consultancy work could hit £240m by 2020, as officials scramble to plan for departure from the EU.

The leaked figures highlight the government’s reliance on hired consultants to provide expertise as the country heads towards leaving on 31 October without a deal currently in place.

It also shows significant growth in spending on consultants beyond Brexit, rising from £513m in 2015-16 to £1.54bn in 2017-18.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 30 May, 2019 12:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There’s a new battle for Britain: resistance to Nigel Farage by Gordon Brown
Quote:
All political parties were too self-absorbed to see it coming, but Nigel Farage’s 32% European election vote created a new dividing line in British politics – taking us well beyond the leave-remain split that has defined Britain since the referendum and threatens to dominate its politics for the foreseeable future.

In the three years since 2016, when we should have been debating the bigger issue that the referendum raised – what kind of Britain we want to become – our rulers have been obsessed with one very narrow question: not even our future relationship with Europe, but merely the terms of our departure from it.

Any leader of our country should have seen that we had to be clear about the Britain we wanted before we could be clear about the Brexit we negotiated – and it is frustration at that failure that has allowed Farage to move in from the wings.

After last Thursday, what is now at issue is far bigger than Brexit: it is a new battle for Britain. This is a battle against intolerance, prejudice, xenophobia and the manufacture of distrust and disunity.
[...]
A close look at the facts shows Farage is out to hijack British patriotism: to whip up a politics of division and hate; weaponise it by deploying the language of betrayal and treachery; and target, demonise and blame immigrants, Europeans, Muslims and anyone else who can be labelled “outsiders” or “the other”. Thus redefining our country as intolerant, inward-looking and xenophobic.

At a time when antisemitism and Islamophobia need to be outed, Farage wants to undo the very anti‑discrimination and equality legislation that protects minorities. He would set back gender equality, promising, for example, to end the right to maternity pay. And instead of honouring the Brexit campaign’s promise of £350m a week to the NHS, he would demolish it by means of US-style private insurance.

While his anti-immigrant views are well known, the full extent of his instinctive prejudice is shocking; from feeling “awkward” sitting on a train next to people not speaking English, to demanding local referendums on new Muslim mosques and, in a direct attack on free speech, proposing to ban university courses in European studies.
... ... ...

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Thu 30 May, 2019 06:03 am
With all this anti-migration sentiment coming to fruition in the neo-nationalizing EU, one may wonder whether there will be anything to limit and/or hold governments and people accountable for blatantly racist and xenophobic speech/discrimination/policy; or will the EU protect and defend discrimination on the basis of national group identity?

Borders are a difficult political issue. If you open them completely, some national/ethnic groups will abuse their power to exploit others using the open borders. Yet if you close them, some national/ethnic groups will use the power of border control to abuse/exploit non-citizens with selective guest-worker migrations, exploitation through trade/colonialism, etc.

Is it possible to have borders and border-control, national/state or otherwise, without having a corresponding rise of national/ethnic territorialism and xenophobic/racist exploitation of trade that amounts to neo-colonialism?
0 Replies
 
 

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