Who do you think are the top 25 basketball players of all time?

Hopefully I'll have one by Christmas. This isn't the easiest ask in the world, because it's so hard to compare between eras, especially for someone who's only 35. (One reason that I, even as a C's fan, may not appreciate Parrish and McHale is that I only saw them play in their final years.)

When I saw this thread I started thinking about a throwing in a wrinkle, like including a Soviet player or something. If this were hockey, I definitely would.

I'm looking fwd to that.

Yes, comparing players of different eras is very hard. This is why I added the qualification (for my list) that a player also had to make significant contributions to changing or affecting the style of play of the sport.

Cousy, was an example of such a player. I almost included Bill Walton, but his career and injury-plagued career was too short.

Mr. G'bag is nuts over college b'ball. When we first met Michael Jordan and Larry Bird were just joining pro-ball. On our third date, he took me to a Balto arena and I saw Larry bird and Michael Jordan in person for the first and only time. I think it was about 1977, and my understanding of the game was whoever got to go first, won. I still can't recognize traveling but I do enjoy watching the game.

Sorry I can't help with the top 25. But if its not considered cheating can I add mr. g'bags picks????

Me, I was zoned in on Walt Hazzard at UCLA.
Sorry, back to reality..


Meantime, who of us would mind if Mr. gbags got his list in here?

Well, he bleeds Carolina Blue.

Oh, look a bias..

Man should post his views.

<Thud>


Quick, Quick! The paddles!

Please explain post. Do you think my rankings for Bird and Russell should be lower or higher? If so, how low or high?

I feel that the rating should be much higher. Count how many championships Russell had in his tenure. That is why he is in the Hall of Fame. Also, count how many times he beat Wilt Chamberlain.

Bill Russell, IMHO, should be in top 5. Where I'd place him certainly can and should be debated. Take a look at my list, if you want to know where I have placed them in the respective ranking. I place him higher than Chamberlain, who I believe that you placed in the Top 5. Fact remains that Russell beat him head-to-head for quite a few of the Finals.

Where you 'should' place them on your list...is your call, of course. I, frankly, question your objectivity that you do not place Russell in the Top 5. I see that as a reflection of your youth and your not having seen much of the NBA from 1960-1985.

During one interval in the '60s, Celtics won the fourth of their eight consecutive NBA championships and Russell was named MVP, the third of five times he would be so honored. In total, he won 11 Championships.

Ummm..where should someone with those credentials be placed?

Russell's effect on the style and the genesis of the NBA game (and in a specific game) was his all-around game..and his change in how defense ...team defense was played forever after:

"He was such a great competitor," said teammate Tom Heinsohn. "I still think Russell was the greatest player to play the game because of his impact. What he did couldn't be recorded in statistics. He changed the game and he made people change their offense. Other teams actually had a 'Russell offense.' How do you measure a guy not wanting to take a shot against him? It's not a block. It's not a shot attempt. It's not a miss. But that's what was going on. He intimidated the other team and he was the consummate winner."

I just reviewed your top 25. Obviously some of your rankings we may be in agreement. Everyone has their own criteria or formula of how they go about ranking players. My criteria consist of a whole range of pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, as well as intangibles. Although, Bill Russell has won 11 championships, his individual stats are not that impressive. Yes, he was a great player who played on a great team. It is true that Wilt Chamberlain 2 championship rings is dwarfed by Bill Russell's 11 championships. But, on the other hand Wilt Chamberlain 30 points per game dwarfs Bill Russell's 15 points per game. Wilt Chamberlain's 54% field goal percentage dwarfs Bill Russell's 44% field goal percentage. Both of their rebounds per game is almost the same. Chamberlain averaged 23 rebounds per game and Russell averaged 22.5 rebounds per game. These stats were averaged out throughout their entire careers. Also, Chamberlain is #5 all time in career scoring and #1 all time in career rebounds. Russell is #151 all time career scoring and #2 all time in career rebounds. The reason Russell made my top 25 list was because of his impressive 11 rings and being #2 in all time rebounding.

One side note: Barry Sanders many believe is the greatest running back in NFL history. I also believe that. For those who don't believe that, will rank Barry Sanders easily in the top 5 NFL running backs in NFL history. He never even gotten to the Super Bowl. Another side note: both Robert Horry and Steve Kerr won 5 NBA championships each over their career. I don't think that you will find many people considering either of them to be one of the greatest NBA players of all time. I know I don't.

After re-reading your post, I discovered that Russell should be ranked higher on my list. I read in your post that Russell was named MVP 5 times and was considered one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Since discovering this information I realized that I should not have Russell rank as #17 on my list. I should have him ranked higher. Probably somewhere between #10 and #12 of all time. There is a generation gap. I really didn't start watching basketball until around the mid/late 1970s. I know much of the accomplishments of players like Chamberlain and Russell. I just never saw them play. The earliest basketball star I remember watching was Julius "Doctor J" Erving.

What about melo?
I read somewhere that Carmelo Anthony has made more money in the NBA than anyone else.
From everything I have heard he is a straight up guy plays hard but never dirty says little if anything on the court. He is also very private person. He hardly does any kind of endorsements and just carries on and concentrates on being a ball hog and he never met a shot he didn't like. That is just part of his persona perhaps a dude I could relate to-I never met a shot I wouldn't take either.

26 million last year and I believe it was around 30 altogether. This could very well be internet garbage since I really don't know. Perhaps a person I could relate too. When the Knicks come here to play the Grizz he is everybody's favorite. Every body yelling at him to shoot. He stole the ball from the grizz-the mascot-and slung it from about the restricted area of the other court and almost hit it. Every time he get the ball everyone is yelling MEL-o Mel-o and make out like they are shooting a ball and when a couple of thousand people doing it it's just hilarious.

Y'all didn't know there were 14 days of Christmas did you?

My list:

TOP 25
---------
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Johnson
Bill Russell

LeBron James
Karl Malone
Oscar Robertson
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant

Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Jerry West
John Stockton
Julius Erving

Charles Barkley
Tim Duncan
Elgin Baylor
David Robinson
John Havlicek

Moses Malone
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
George Mikan <-- Marques Haynes
George Gervin

You a late-80's/early-90's child? ;-)

I'm not sure he makes my top 50...

Are those groups "tiers" you put them in?

Yep. I really just broke them into groups of five to make it easier to read. So you could say the first five are the top tier. But there isn't necessarily a significant gap between #5 and #6.

Here is ESPN's top 100 (ones in asterisks haven't been announced and are guesses):

Michael Jordan
* Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3 LeBron James
4 Magic Johnson
5 Wilt Chamberlain
6 Larry Bird
7 Bill Russell
8 Tim Duncan
9 Shaquille O'Neal
10 Hakeem Olajuwon
11 Oscar Robertson
12 Kobe Bryant
13 Jerry West
14 Julius Erving
15 Moses Malone
16 Karl Malone
17 Dirk Nowitzki
18 Charles Barkley
19 John Stockton
20 David Robinson
21 Kevin Garnett
22 Kevin Durant
23 Stephen Curry
24 Elgin Baylor
25 Scottie Pippen
26 Isiah Thomas
27 Dwyane Wade
28 John Havlicek
29 Chris Paul
30 Steve Nash
31 Kevin McHale
32 Patrick Ewing
33 George Mikan
34 Bob Pettit
35 Jason Kidd
36 Clyde Drexler
37 Rick Barry
38 Walt Frazier
39 Bob Cousy
40 Elvin Hayes
41 Gary Payton
42 Bill Walton
43 James Worthy
44 Dominique Wilkins
45 Paul Pierce
46 Allen Iverson
47 George Gervin
48 Willis Reed
49 Russell Westbrook
50 Ray Allen
51 Reggie Miller
52 Bob McAdoo
53 Wes Unseld
54 Bernard King
55 Dave Cowens
56 Pau Gasol
57 Robert Parish
58 Tony Parker
59 Carmelo Anthony
60 Earl Monroe
61 Manu Ginobili
62 Alex English
63 Tracy McGrady
64 Dennis Rodman
65 Alonzo Mourning
66 Chris Webber
67 Dwight Howard
68 Bob Lanier
69 Vince Carter
70 Artis Gilmore
71 Pete Maravich
72 Adrian Dantley
73 Dikembe Mutombo
74 Dolph Schayes
75 Blake Griffin
76 Nate Archibald
77 Joe Dumars
78 Sam Jones
79 Jerry Lucas
80 Grant Hill
81 Sidney Moncrief
82 David Thompson
83 Chris Mullin
84 Dennis Johnson
85 Dave DeBusschere
86 Chris Bosh
87 Chauncey Billups
88 Billy Cunningham
89 Yao Ming
90 Paul Arizin
91 Maurice Cheeks
92 Nate Thurmond
93 Lenny Wilkens
94 Mark Price
95 Marc Gasol
96 Bobby Jones
97 James Harden
98 Gail Goodrich
99 Kevin Love
100 Shawn Kemp

I gotta agree .