7
   

God is good but there is still suffering.

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 01:50 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Lots of apologists declare that "God's purpose is/was" this, that or the other, and they often contradict each other. How would one who is not committed to any particular set of beliefs, scriptures or traditions decide who actually has special insight into the mind of this god?
Noted.
With the disclaimer that I could be wrong, I am simply stating what the Bible records as God's stated purpose.
Quote:
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." (Genesis1:28)
Quote:
The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psalm 115:16)
Quote:
. . . so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)
I realize other folks may see different strokes.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 02:10 am
@neologist,
OK, thanks. That really doesn't answer my question, but I appreciate your response.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 07:04 am
@neologist,
What would be of God without some Satan drama ? Those "guys" kill themselves in the parlement and dinner together after...
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 08:25 am
@hmodahl,
hmodahl wrote:

... how could a good God allow suffering in this world?


What suffering are you talking about?
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 08:28 am
@Johnjohnjohn,
Johnjohnjohn wrote:



...why are there still people without cut hair ?




Because they're bald...you silly goose!
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 09:58 am
@Miller,
Give a good thought on the nature, the ontology of Value, why do things have worth...from there is a no brainer why suffefing is needed in a balanced Cosmos.
0 Replies
 
Nova Flare Q
 
  3  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 12:50 pm
Adding on to what Neologist said earlier, the Bible does not directly state why things have gone down the course that they have other than the fact that (insert whatever his name was before Satan here) meditated on incorrect thoughts and allowed them to take root in his consciousness, resulting in the world we have today. The cosmos is perfectly balanced, for there is an equilibrium of positive and negative force. Just because the negative force also applies to us sentient beings does not instantly mean that the universe is horribly unbalanced and that our perception about it is 100% correct - that is taking an overly-personal and presumptuous viewpoint on the matter, for negative and positive energy can take form in many different ways.

There are many possible reasons for how Satan formed himself and the world thereafter, such as Satan possibly believing that he could become free of the laws of physics by devoting his thinking to an illogical mode of being, thus hoping to somehow break through this realm of logic in order to gain power, somehow, over the Universe and it's laws of physics and the many different layers surrounding it (Jehovah being the universe and the laws of physics) or at-least somehow be immune to it by attempting to forcefully materialize his perceptions into reality. Or, quite simply put, this period of time exists to serve as a lesson to the billions upon billions in the New World after Armageddon: Reason being, if a perfect angel could fall to such a level, then so can perfected humans and other perfect angels (who also fell, and thus Satan gained the label 'Beelzebub' among the demons (angels who fell), a prince-like position. Here is a snippet from the Watchtower & Bible Tract Society (JW.ORG) database on Beelzebub:

"BEELZEBUB
(Be·elʹze·bub) [possibly an alteration of Baal-zebub, meaning “Owner of the Flies,” the Baal worshiped by the Philistines at Ekron. Alternately, Beelzeboul and Beezeboul, possibly meaning, “Owner of the Lofty Abode (Habitation)”; or, if a play on the non-Biblical Heb. word zeʹvel (dung), “Owner of the Dung”].

“Beelzebub” is a designation applied to Satan the prince, or ruler, of the demons. The religious leaders blasphemously accused Jesus Christ of expelling demons by means of Beelzebub*.—Mt 10:25; 12:24-29; Mr 3:22-27; Lu 11:15-19; see BAAL-ZEBUB"

*The religious leaders would not accept the fact that Jesus was the first creation of God at that time. Many go to the other extreme and say that he IS god, which the Bible never states. Both viewpoints are forced in order to deviate from the truth that he is simply the first creation, and so has a lot of rights at his disposal.
)

It's simply a matter of metaphysics and the questionable forays into the origin of consciousness. There are simply too many unknowns to answer this for certain, so the question is valid but the answer is limited based on what God has chosen and not chosen to reveal in the Bible. Revealing too much on the inner workings of the universe and consciousness too early would result in disastrous consequences resulted from such knowledge being abused, and God being good, I think he would want to avoid said disastrous consequences.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 02:11 pm
Ironically, it is a parallel of evolutionists' explainations for relatively rapid evolution (or extinctions) of species occurring that I draw God's reason for allowing pain and suffering.

Evolutionists explain the amazing leaps of evolution are brought about by environmental stresses. Pain and suffering are the environmental stresses on souls causing their 'evolution'.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 06:29 pm
@Leadfoot,
I agree up to the "therefore, God" conclusion. That bit needs a little more work, I think.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 08:05 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Why is there a time limit in the first place in regard to proving the challenge made in the most effective way?

I am not in charge of the clock. But if God had simply destroyed the rebels on site, we could not have been born. So, one consideration must be God's desire for all to have opportunity for life. 2 Peter 3:9 seems to bear that out.

So, if there's an ulterior motive, that of all having an opportunity for life, there's dishonesty in taking on the challenge in the first place.

God's purpose was and is for his human creation to have indefinitely lasting life. So how could that be an ulterior motive?

The dishonesty you refer to comes from accusers.

It’s an ulterior motive in that the king really isn’t interested in giving the subjects the chance to prove the challenge made in the most effective way because he already has another agenda--an opportunity for life--that he's going to implement anyway, that moots the chance he’s giving; it really isn’t a chance.
He’s being dishonest with the subjects, Satan, accusers, etc.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 01:03 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
. . . He’s being dishonest with the subjects, Satan, accusers, etc. . .
Interesting twist.
God being dishonest with the liar.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 01:26 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
. . . He’s being dishonest with the subjects, Satan, accusers, etc. . .
Interesting twist.
God being dishonest with the liar.


It makes God a liar, as well.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 03:22 am
@neologist,
Quote:

God's purpose was and is for his human creation to have indefinitely lasting life. So how could that be an ulterior motive?
Even when making sausage you don't get a yield of 100%. Why do you have such a problem with that?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:03 am
@Leadfoot,
I wrote:
God's purpose was and is for his human creation to have indefinitely lasting life. So how could that be an ulterior motive?
leadfoot wrote:
Even when making sausage you don't get a yield of 100%. Why do you have such a problem with that?
Good point. . .
But I don't get it all.
Just clear up one detail for me.
What would be the ulterior motive of the sausage maker?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:07 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
It makes God a liar, as well.
So where might we look for the truth?

You?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:37 am
@neologist,
The truth, according to your reading of the Bible, leaves you with only snarky rejoinders, apparently.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 10:42 am
@neologist,
Quote:
I wrote:
God's purpose was and is for his human creation to have indefinitely lasting life. So how could that be an ulterior motive?

leadfoot wrote:
"Even when making sausage you don't get a yield of 100%. Why do you have such a problem with that?"

Good point. . .
But I don't get it all.
Just clear up one detail for me.
What would be the ulterior motive of the sausage maker?
I could have it wrong, but from this and other posts I get the impression that you think there won't be any losses from God's creation and everyone gets a ticket to 'Disney World'. If that were true, it would make this life a pointless exercise and it would mean that God had an ulterior motive behind creation and giving us life.

So just to be clear, I don't think he has an ulterior motive. He has been honest with us about the desire that we have eternal life. But also honest about the significant losses in the process.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 12:58 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
. . . I could have it wrong, but from this and other posts I get the impression that you think there won't be any losses from God's creation and everyone gets a ticket to 'Disney World'. . .
Sorry to have left that impression. But, in keeping with your analogy, free tickets are available to all; but many still think the price is too high.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 01:26 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
free tickets are available to all; but many still think the price is too high.
OK, I had the wrong impression. Guess I'll have to ask InfraBlue where he sees the ulterior motive.

Price too high: Probably true in some cases. Some seem to think the price is so low that it's too good to be true.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 05:38 pm
Bee-Tsar
0 Replies
 
 

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