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Tue 3 Aug, 2004 04:41 pm
Please if you have any scientific facts mentioned in bible, Torah or others, post it here so that we can share them.
Uhm... I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
Are you talking about things like the exodus being caused by the eruption of the isle of Santorini? Or the great flood taking place in the Black Sea?
Or are you talking about things in the bible that are 100% factual?
I haven't heard of anything in the Bible that can be construed as scientific fact though many things mentioned there are possible. If you're thinking of things like Noah and the Ark or Moses parting the Red Sea I think those things have to be taken more as literary allusions.
However, the Buddhist Sutras contain a great deal of information that can be construed scintifically. Buddhism deals with the oneness of body and mind, the oneness of life and its environment, karma and many other things that science is leaning towards.
are you saying that Torah and Bible do not include any science facts?
That a weird thing for me, I thought they do like Quran?
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Or are you talking about things in the bible that are 100% factual?
sure, don't you have sings of god in the book, like we do?
these science facts mentioned in Quran or though prophet make people closer to the religion beacuse,simply, they could not been discovered thousands of years ago.
I will post few of what mentioned in Quram or Sunnah (prophets words) about science facts discovered recently.
The Quran which was revealed 14 centuries ago mentioned facts that are only recently discovered by proven scientists.
1- an interview with Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston.
We were able, however, to remove his suspicion. We presented to him the text outlining the development of the embryo. We proved to him that the Qur'aan informs us that the hereditary and the chromosomal make-up of the new being take place only after a successful union between the sperm and the ovum. As we know, these chromosomes contain all the characteristics which the new human being will have such as the color of the eyes, skin, hair, etc
Hence, many of the details in the human being’s make-up are determined in his chromosomes. These chromosomes begin to form during the early nutfah stage of embryonic development. In other words, the distinguishing features of the new human being are determined from the very beginning at the nutfah stage.
Allah the Most Exalted, the Most Glorified, has stated this fact in the Qur'aan:
Woe to man! What has made him reject Allah, From what stuff has He created him? From a sperm-drop: He has created him, and then molded him in due proportion. (Qur'aan 80:17-19)
During the first 40 days of gestation, all the body parts and organs are completely, though consecutively formed. We can notice in Figure 2.1 that the organs begin to be formed, assembled, and the fetus appears twisted. The Prophet Muhammad, (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), has informed us in a hadeeth that:
((((( In every one of you, all components of your creation are gathered together in your mothers’ womb by 40 days. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim and Al-Bukhaari))))))))
In another Hadeeth, Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said (((((((((( When forty-two nights have passed over the drop (nutfah), Allah sends an angel to it, who shapes it and makes its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones. Then he says, “O Lord, is it male or female?” and your Lord decides what he wishes. (Muslim)))))))))))))).
Professor Simpson studied these two hadeeths extensively, noting that the first 40 days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those hadeeths. Then during one of the conferences which he attended he gave the following opinion: "So that the two hadeeths that have been noted can provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before 40 days. Again, the point had been made repeatedly by other speakers this morning that these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of their recording."
Professor Simpson says that religion can successfully guide the pursuit of knowledge. The West, as we said, has rejected this. Here is an American scientist who says that religion, namely Islam, can achieve this with success. By analogy, if you go to a factory and have with you the operation manual of the factory, then you will be able to easily understand the kind of operation that goes on in that factory, thanks to that manual by the factory designer and builder. If you do not have this manual with you, chances are much less that you will have good understanding of the various processes there
Professor Simpson said: "It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exist statements in the Qur'aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur'aan having been derived from Allah.
2- an interview with Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists. He is a Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenburg University, Mainz, Germany
Professor Kroner chose an example from the Qur'aan which proved to him why the Qur'aan could not have come from Muhammad.
we asked him to describe the geological conditions of Arabia. ‘Was Arabia full of orchards and rivers?’ He said: "During the Snow Age." And it is further known that the North Polar icebergs are slowly moving southwards. When those polar icebergs become relatively close to the Arabian Peninsula, the weather will change and Arabia will become one of the greenest and wettest parts of the world. We asked him: ‘Will Arabia become the land of orchards and rivers?’ He said: "Yes, it is a scientific fact."
This astonished us, and we wondered how he could state this as a scientific fact while it was related to the future and we asked: ‘Why?’ He said: "Because the new Snow Age has actually started. And we can see the snow crawling once again from the North Pole southwards. In fact, the polar snow is now on the way to get closer to the Arabian Peninsula. We can see the signs of this in the snow blizzards striking the northern parts of Europe and America every winter. Scientists have other signs and information proving the actual beginning of another Snow Age. It is a scientific fact."
So we said to him: ‘What you have just mentioned has only been known to scientists after a long series of discoveries and with the help of specialized instruments. But we have already found this mentioned by the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) 1400 years ago. He said in a hadeeth transmitted in Saheeh Muslim:
(((((((The Last Hour will not come upon us until the lands of the Arabs are once again pasture lands and filled with rivers)))))))
At this point we asked Professor Kroner: ‘Who told the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), that the lands of the Arabs were once filled with orchards and rivers?’ He immediately replied: "The Romans." This reminded me of Professor Kroner’s evasive ability. We asked him another question, we said to him: ‘But who informed the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), that the lands of the Arabs would once again become pasturelands and be filled with rivers?’.
Professor Kroner becomes evasive if embarrassed. But whenever he was faced with the truth, he is courageous enough to state his opinion frankly and thus he replied: "This could have been known to him only through revelation from above."
Seems like a good deal of jumping to conclusions to me. (no offense)
Granted, islam used to harbor the center of scientific learning in the West. I'm told Portugal was a primary force in ending that. But determining the time at which gender starts to form physically isn't impossible. Not even difficult given enough examples to study. And a quote stating that someone believes water will return to their religion does not mean an intimate understanding of ice-ages.
limbodog wrote:Seems like a good deal of jumping to conclusions to me. (no offense)
Granted, islam used to harbor the center of scientific learning in the West. I'm told Portugal was a primary force in ending that. But determining the time at which gender starts to form physically isn't impossible.Not even difficult given enough examples to study. And a quote stating that someone believes water will return to their religion does not mean an intimate understanding of ice-ages.
No offence at all.
Yes muslim were the harbor of scientific learing in the west but before Islam we were the worst regarding science.
Quote:But determining the time at which gender starts to form physically isn't impossible.
you think it was possible to know that 1400 years ago?
also from The Bible, The Qur'an and Science book by Dr. Maurice Bucaille
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The Sun and Moon.
Whereas the Bible talks of the sun and the moon as two lights differing only in size, the Qur’an distinguishes between them by the use of different terms: light (noor) for the moon, and lamp (siraaj) for the sun.
"Did you see how Allah created seven heavens, one above the other, and made in them the moon a light and the sun a lamp?" Qur’an, 78:12-13
The moon is an inert body which reflects light, whereas the sun is a celestial body in a state of permanent combustion producing both light and heat.
Stars and Planets
The word ‘star’ (najm) in the Qur’an ( 86:3 ) is accompanied by the adjective thaaqib which indicates that it burns and consumes itself as it pierces through the shadows of the night. It was much later discovered that stars are heavenly bodies producing their own light like the sun.
In the Qur’an, a different word, kawkab, is used to refer to the planets which are celestial bodies that reflect light and do not produce their own light like the sun.
“We have adorned the lowest heaven with ornaments, the planets.” Qur’an, 37:6
Orbits
Today, the laws governing the celestial systems are well known. Galaxies are balanced by the position of stars and planets in well-defined orbits, as well as the interplay of gravitational forces produced by their masses and the speed of their movements. But is this not what the Qur’an describes in terms which have only become comprehensible in modern times. In chapter al-Ambiyaa we find:
“(God is) the one who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion.” Qur’an,21:33
The Arabic word which expresses this movement is the verb yasbahoon which implies the idea of motion produced by a moving body, whether it is the movement of one’s legs running on the ground, or the action of swimming in water. In the case of a celestial body, one is forced to translate it, according to its original meaning, as ‘to travel with its own motion.’
In my book, The Bible, The Qur'an and Science, I have given the precise scientific data corresponding to the motion of celestial bodies. They are well known for the moon, but less widely known for the sun.
The Solar Apex
The notion of a settled place for the sun is vividly described in chapter Yaa Seen of the Qur’an:
"The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.” Qur’an, 36:38
“Settled place” is the translation of the word mustaqarr which indicates an exact appointed place and time. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.
glad_to_be_muslim wrote:you think it was possible to know that 1400 years ago?
Yup. I'd not be particularly surprised if this was known well before that time. It is physically determinable if one is able to view the fetus. (a grisly but not unlikely possibility. Miscarriages being the simplest way to do so.)
Also, I don't know if Arabic shares this trait, but as I recall "40" was used a long long time ago to mean "alot". Hence 40 days and 40 nights isn't specific, but rather an indication that a long time passed etc.
And I think the South American tribes in the high mountains were the ones who did the best with Astronomy. But yes, we've been learning that astronomy was a big deal alot earlier than we thought (of course, we're also learning that civilization started alot earlier than we thought)
Quote:Yup. I'd not be particularly surprised if this was known well before that time. It is physically determinable if one is able to view the fetus. (a grisly but not unlikely possibility. Miscarriages being the simplest way to do so.)
Also, I don't know if Arabic shares this trait, but as I recall "40" was used a long long time ago to mean "alot". Hence 40 days and 40 nights isn't specific, but rather an indication that a long time passed etc.
Maybe you have a point of view about the Miscarriages, but also we are talking about 40 nights (precisely). How dose the fetus looks like after 40 nights? I think it is hard to discover that by eye even if a miscarriage occurs.
I believe this astronomy could not be proven or discovered from over mountains using eyes or the old stuff. It is impossible.
Ok read the following, Ocean and see
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4-
Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density. For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth
Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.
The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:
((((((( He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)))))))
But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:
((((He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53) ))))
One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.” This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water
This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
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((((( Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it.... )))) (Quran, 24:40)
This verse mentions the darkness found in deep seas and oceans, where if a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it. The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 meters and below. At this depth, there is almost no light .Below a depth of 1000 meters there is no light at all. Human beings are not able to dive more than forty meters without the aid of submarines or special equipment. Human beings cannot survive unaided in the deep dark part of the oceans, such as at a depth of 200 meters.
Scientists have recently discovered this darkness by means of special equipment and submarines that have enabled them to dive into the depths of the oceans.
We can also understand from the following sentences in the previous verse, “...in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds....”, that the deep waters of seas and oceans are covered by waves, and above these waves are other waves. It is clear that the second set of waves are the surface waves that we see, because the verse mentions that above the second waves there are clouds. But what about the first waves? Scientists have recently discovered that there are internal waves which “occur on density interfaces between layers of different densities.”
The internal waves cover the deep waters of seas and oceans because the deep waters have a higher density than the waters above them. Internal waves act like surface waves. They can also break, just like surface waves. Internal waves cannot be seen by the human eye, but they can be detected by studying temperature or salinity changes at a given location
glad_to_be_muslim wrote:Maybe you have a point of view about the Miscarriages, but also we are talking about 40 nights (precisely). How dose the fetus looks like after 40 nights? I think it is hard to discover that by eye even if a miscarriage occurs.
I don't know how it looks after exactly 40 nights. I'd be willing to bet it isn't quite uniform. But I'm not gonna research that sort of thing here at work. But why would it be hard to determine by the naked eye?
glad_to_be_muslim wrote:I believe this astronomy could not be proven or discovered from over mountains using eyes or the old stuff. It is impossible.
Impossible? Why would it be impossible?
I remember a buncha years ago my father and I visited his friend. His friend had a new semi-powerful telescope. He was showing us (and his young daughter... I'd guess she was 7-10) the view of Saturn and its rings.
After looking through the telescope, his daughter stepped back and looked up and said "But daddy howcome the rings are on the other side now?" Took us a second to understand what was going on. The image in the telescope is reversed due to the mirror. She could actually see Saturn's rings with her eyes!
Put someone like her up on a mountain with thinner air and zero air pollution and who knows what she could see?
As for the ocean/freshwater stuff... I still think your source is deliberately reading far too much into things because they want to get results.
Astrology (to say nothing of astronomy) requires a very precise knowledge of the motions of the heavenly bodies, and this knowledge was gleaned long before telescopes, just by watching, paying attention. That there are ancient Celtic tombs that only admit light on the solstice speaks to the precision with which folks long ago could predict these things.
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I don't know how it looks after exactly 40 nights. I'd be willing to bet it isn't quite uniform. But I'm not gonna research that sort of thing here at work. But why would it be hard to determine by the naked eye?
it is only 40 nights, even many women don't feel that they are pregnant before 2 months. I guess it would be very small and not well uniformed. I will try to find a picture for the 40 night fetus.
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After looking through the telescope, his daughter stepped back and looked up and said "But daddy howcome the rings are on the other side now?" Took us a second to understand what was going on. The image in the telescope is reversed due to the mirror. She could actually see Saturn's rings with her eyes!
I don't know how it is possible to discover that sun moves thought a telescope or naked eye. I think it is impossible.
Also how could someone imagine at old day that moon reflects light instead of shining it? There are big questions here but all your answers all welcome.
Plus there are no high mountains in the land were Muhammad lived.
But I also invite you to read the next text, about the creation of universe.
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As for the ocean/freshwater stuff... I still think your source is deliberately reading far too much into things because they want to get results.
I don't know what do you mean here but the source also provide pictures taken from books, these figures illustrate what they are talking about.
patiodog wrote:
long ago could predict these things.
This knowledge is not a prediction, this is pure accurate knowledge. No human or illiterate person like Muhammad could discover that.
look how small the 8 weeks fetus, i'm talking about 5 weeks
this is sixs week fetus from layyous.com
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Week 5
Baby:
Your embryo still hasn't grown much. It's about 0.05 inches long. Heart, brain, spinal cord, muscle and bones are beginning to develop. The placenta, which will nourish your baby, and the amniotic sac, which provides a warm and safe environment where the baby can move easily, are still forming, too.
Mom:
Still no big changes to notice in yourself, although you might suspect by now that you're pregnant. Some early pregnancy symptoms include nausea (called "morning sickness," although it can happen at any time of day), a tingling or soreness in your breasts and darkening of the areola, the need to urinate more frequently and feeling more tired than usual.
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week 6
Baby:
The embryo is starting to look like a tadpole. It's about 0.08 inches to 0.16 inches -- the size of a BB pellet -- from the top of the head to buttocks. (This crown-to-rump length is used more often than crown-to-heel length because the baby's legs are most often bent and hard to measure). The eyes and limb buds also are forming. A heartbeat can sometimes be detected by an ultrasound around now. This is also an extremely important time in the development of your baby, since between 17 and 56 days the embryo is most susceptible to factors that can interfere with its normal growth.
source :
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/64/72363.htm
what do you think.?
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6- creation of universe
The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’
There is a figure at (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, p. 50.) with this description (A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe.)
God has said in the Quran:
((((((( Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11))))))))))))))))
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:
(((((((((( Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30) )))))))))
do you think that this also could be discovered by naked eye?
Quote:Also how could someone imagine at old day that moon reflects light instead of shining it? There are big questions here but all your answers all welcome.
You don't need a telescope to watch the moon. When the moon and sun are in the sky together, you can observe their relative positions and which part of the moon is bright and which is dark. You seem to think that people a long time ago weren't very intelligent...
"you seem to think that people a long time ago weren't very intelligent..."
Did I say that? Huh? Just because I said they had no foreheads, were mouth-breathing, monkey-faced knuckle-draggers, drove pickups,drank Lone Star, were all A&M grads and trial lawyers ta boot, doesn't mean I thought they were'nt intelligent.
Shoot!
"you seem to think that people a long time ago weren't very intelligent..."
Did I say that? Huh? Just because I said they had no foreheads, were mouth-breathing, monkey-faced knuckle-draggers, drove pickups,drank Lone Star, were all A&M grads and trial lawyers ta boot, doesn't mean I thought they were'nt intelligent.
Shoot!
Hey Glad_to,
Still looks to me like most of what you're describing is a very careful effort to find similarities between allegory and modern day understanding. Yes, the coincidences are interesting, but for the most part they don't convey much more than an ability to observe their surroundings 1400 years ago (or more)
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