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Philosophical question

 
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2015 09:55 pm
I was watching the movie "Her" late at night this week and one of the things they talked about kind of had me thinking.

The main guy was talking about his fear that he had experienced all of the feelings that he ever would. Anything else he ever experienced would be a variation on something he has already experienced. He would experience fist love again or the first time flying or kissing, etc.

This has been mulling around inside my head since watching the movie and I am wondering that if I, a 45 year old guy that has experienced quite a lot, has experienced everything new that I will.

Opinions or thoughts? Lets discuss it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 3,100 • Replies: 21
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fresco
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 12:10 am
@McGentrix,
I wouldn't worry! Systems theory applied to human experience suggests that internal states continuously change with external states such that what we call 'self' is in a constant state of evolution, and 'we can never step into the same river twice'.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:55 am
@McGentrix,
As those close to one moves forward into new venues, one experiences vicariously the thoughts of how these significant others will fare. So, unless one is totally absorbed in the story of one's own life, the life of others change, and with that goes one's new vicarious experiences.

Simply put, it's not all about you.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 08:56 pm
@Foofie,
Pretty sure that my feelings are exactly about me. Just as your feelings are about you. There is nothing wrong with being selfish in ones experiences and feelings. I'm not really fond of vicarious living.

There are some experiences I am looking forward to. Like grand children. But, I've had kids. I know they are really just poop monsters that eat to make more poop until a certain age. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I suppose the pride that my children have procreated and carried on the gene pool will be new so there is that.

That doesn't diminish that those experiences will be mere shadows of the experience of having my own children and raising them. That was new and exciting. Anyways, it was just a thought I had.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 09:02 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

I wouldn't worry! Systems theory applied to human experience suggests that internal states continuously change with external states such that what we call 'self' is in a constant state of evolution, and 'we can never step into the same river twice'.


Thumbs up to that. Neither the same person, nor the same river. I don't see how it's possible to have the same experience twice.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 11:41 pm
Uhm . . . people get drunk, or get stoned, or eat their favorite food, or have wild monkey sex--again and again and again and again and again . . . etc. (if they're lucky). I don't see this as a problem.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2015 11:46 pm
@Setanta,
Mmmm...I think each time they do that, it's a new experience. Not a repetition of the previous one.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 06:59 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Mmmm...I think each time they do that, it's a new experience. Not a repetition of the previous one.


Not a repetition, a variance. Getting drunk the first time is new. Any further drunkeness would be a variation on that. You will never experience getting drunk for the first time ever again.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 07:02 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

fresco wrote:

I wouldn't worry! Systems theory applied to human experience suggests that internal states continuously change with external states such that what we call 'self' is in a constant state of evolution, and 'we can never step into the same river twice'.


Thumbs up to that. Neither the same person, nor the same river. I don't see how it's possible to have the same experience twice.


No? You don't get up in the morning, stretch, scratch your balls, take a piss and do your morning routine? Every day? You don't get in the same car and drive to work (or whatever, the details are not important) every day? Life has certain routines and I'm not suggesting these are bad things but if you can't see how it's possible to have the same experience twice then you must take a whole lot of drugs or something.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 07:07 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

He would experience fist love again....

Fist love? That's hardcore. Sounds like Fight Club erotic fan fiction. Confused
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 07:54 am
I get both points of view, but think I'm more like FBM.

I used to be quite a city walker, some of the time walking many of the same routes. I'm sort of observant, part naturally, once I gradually learned to grow up and look around, and part by training in types of architecture and city planning and landscape, part by interest in photography. I was forever seeing new stuff or the same stuff in a new way, even if I'd walked the route the day before. I've also had long time eye troubles, so maybe seeing holds a bit more joy for me, though I'm not sure that is part of it.
I do remember sometimes noticing that in walking with friends for number of blocks, I'd be the one babbling about something I saw.

Also, as it sort of shows in that last paragraph, I, the me that is seeing, keep changing incrementally too. . . which can color how I am seeing something the next time.

Sometimes I even change opinions, a little at a time or all at once.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 08:57 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

No? You don't get up in the morning, stretch, scratch your balls, take a piss and do your morning routine? Every day? You don't get in the same car and drive to work (or whatever, the details are not important) every day? Life has certain routines and I'm not suggesting these are bad things but if you can't see how it's possible to have the same experience twice then you must take a whole lot of drugs or something.


When I woke up yesterday, it was the only time that I will have ever woken up on that day. When I woke up this morning, it was a different day, a different awakening. Time. It moves forward. I don't know any way to stop it except in the imagination.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:49 am
I agree with the Heraclitus quote. Anyway, there are many days when i don't want surprises. The Catalans have expression of good will which is "May no new thing arise."
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:39 am
@McGentrix,
Perhaps, you are suffering from some level of ennui? And, it could reflect a lowering of dopamine levels in your brain. Let's hope it is not early Parkinson's.

In effect, in my opinion, you should count your blessings, rather than ruminate over your possible ennui. The good news is that you are not alone. Many people that are living above subsistence level are in your shoes too.

Actually, I should thank you, since your misery of sorts makes me feel a little happier. Life is a competition in some ways.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 01:35 pm
@Foofie,
Was more of an existential question then a reflection of life.

Thought maybe a discussion about it could be had as there are definitely two sides to it.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 01:58 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
You will never experience getting drunk for the first time ever again.


try being on a medication half of every year

the first beer each year after meds are over

divine

it is a new amazing experience - made different by the setting, companions and brew - never the same thing twice

__


years ago (like a lonnnnng time ago) I wrote on Abuzz about the experience of going to live concerts vs buying albums (cds, whatever media). live concert experiences can never be replicated. each audience is different, the air is different - changing how the instruments sound, the band members will be feeling different .
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2015 03:16 pm
@ehBeth,
when you go to concerts, do you get in the mosh pits, sit way in the back or off to one side (theoretical questions, I know you aren't much for moshing) ? Do you where a nice gown or jeans and a t-shirt?

I ask this because you have been to many concerts and you have experience in them. You have an idea of where to sit, what to wear, how to participate. Now think back to the very first concert you saw, did you know any of that stuff? Probably not. But after that first experience, you then kind of know what to expect at a concert. Obviously no two concerts are the same. Obviously no 2 beers are the same. Obviously no two days are the same. But, the sun rises, the sun sets, water is wet and the wind blows...
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2015 01:02 am
@McGentrix,
The key philosophical issue concerns the meaning of the word 'same'.
Note for example that any two items can both considered both 'the same' and 'different'. (Minimally they are the same because they are objects of a comparison, and different because there are two of them).

This point underpins philosophical problems concerning 'identity', in particular identity of 'self'. One system of esoteric philosophy (Gurdjieff) concerns our 'false' belief in an 'integrated self'. And at the level of traditional analysis, the example of 'black swans' was a traditional exercise in discussions of logic and set membership.

To a large extent, 'sameness' boils down to 'equivalence for functional purposes', and determination of functionality may be a matter of individual mindset.
0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 10:44 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

I was watching the movie "Her" late at night this week and one of the things they talked about kind of had me thinking.

The main guy was talking about his fear that he had experienced all of the feelings that he ever would. Anything else he ever experienced would be a variation on something he has already experienced. He would experience fist love again or the first time flying or kissing, etc.

This has been mulling around inside my head since watching the movie and I am wondering that if I, a 45 year old guy that has experienced quite a lot, has experienced everything new that I will.

Opinions or thoughts? Lets discuss it.


This question seems to have a hidden presumption though, namely that each first experience sort of taps into a hitherto unexplored or untapped set of feelings, and that each subsequent experience will be recognized as being a repetition or slight derivation of that first time.
But where does one draw the line on what constitutes 'new' here?
Suppose you descend down a hill on a street on your roller skates for the first time? And then do the same on a skate board? Or on roller blades?
Do these three actions each count as a 'first time', or are these variations of each other, and do they count as repetitions with minor differences?

There are some further issues to consider as well though:

- Take, for instance, the first time you exceeded the speed limit in your car.
Odds are, you weren't even aware of it. However, does that mean that the second time you break the speed limit, given that you are aware of it this time, means you experience it for the 'first' time?

- And what if you are at a later point of time confronted with an action that you were unaware of at the time? Take, for instance, a ticket you receive for speeding for that first time, when you were not aware of it? Does that 'change' the way you perceived that first time experience that you thought
you had? In the example given, does that change the way you perceive the second time you broke the speed limit, which you hitherto believed to be the first time?


- It seems a tad trite as an example, but if you consider a person who, for one reason or another, has no memories of a certain part of his or her life. Does this person again get to experience firsts? Does body memory play a part here?

- How about doing something you enjoy again after a long time had passed? Let's say a person had a passion for driving fast in expensive cars. But this person experienced financial troubles, and was unable to drive for a number of years, since (s)he didn't have the money for a car. But then their luck changed, and they managed to buy an expensive car again. When you drive it after going without for so long, - even though this person might have driven fast thousands of times before - , would this time, after all these barren years, not feel like the first time all over again?



0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 11:39 am
@McGentrix,
It's different for every concert. Different locations, different audiences, different musicians, different music.

I never know what to expect of the concert.

I may know which door to go in (if it's an indoor concert) but beyond that ... it's going to be a new experience.

As a performer, I have a similar feeling. How we dance at a particular show is always very specific to the show - the venue, the audience, how other dancers are feeling, the weather, how the musicians are feeling about the music (are they going to surprise us by changing the speed?) - who the musicians are. Each show is a new experience.
0 Replies
 
 

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