0
   

Sharon calls for Jews to get out of France.

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 11:07 am
I think its sinister Galilite, because Sharon made the speech to invited Americans in Israel.

I really do think Sharon is trying to subvert the good offices of the EU and France in particular, because he knows well that knocking the French plays well in Washington right now.
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 02:24 pm
good,
Chirac: Sharon not welcome in Paris
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 11:22 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I think its sinister Galilite, because Sharon made the speech to invited Americans in Israel.

I really do think Sharon is trying to subvert the good offices of the EU and France in particular, because he knows well that knocking the French plays well in Washington right now.
Well... Let's just say that official Jerusalem has been holding a grudge against Paris long time before Washington. Do you really think a progressive country, a jewel of culture, working hard to support sympathetic and charismatic figures like Khomeini, Mugabe, Ceausescu or Bocassa the cannibal would miss a chance to stomp on the evil Zionist oppressor?

Thok - I don't think it's something new or sensational. I'm not sure if Sharon really cares either.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 11:30 pm
No actually it is new, as Sharon's visit has been cancelled.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 11:36 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
No actually it is new, as Sharon's visit has been cancelled.
Hmm... I was wrong then.

Offtopic - how come every time the page reloads you got a new avatar? Shocked
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2004 11:42 pm
Yeah, an invitation to France had been extended to Sharon and the date was being finalized.

Then Sharon did his thing and now there's a row over silliness.

What's completely incomprehensible is the explanation given by Jacques Revah, the charge d'affaires of the Israeli Embassy in Paris.

He said:

    "Mr. Sharon had the same message for all Jews in the world, and [b]if he pointed out France, it was to praise the position and the measures France has taken to combat anti-Semitism[/b]," Revah told the AP.


Sharon apparently has an odd way of praise, as Sharon's remarks said that France is host to "the wildest anti-Semitism".

C'mon Israel! Get the PR act together! This is amateur diplomacy and Israel is usually better at it than this.

Re: avatar, I use a script that randomizes them.
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:21 am
Sharon stick do it on his statement, he want nor one millions jewish went to Israel.

Craven de Kere wrote:
I use a script that randomizes them.


can you show the script? :-) ...
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:26 am
http://search.able2know.com/About/1220.html
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:35 am
This is strange - Sharon usually doesn't do stuff like this without thinking twice.

I wonder if it's an attempt to get France out of the Middle Eastern decision makers group by series of diplomatic scandals.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:51 am
I doubt it, France is not an individual member of the "Mideast Quartet", which is comprised of the US, Russia, UN and EU.

Israel's efforts with France individually would not be able to either excise France from either the UN or EU nor do I think it could kick the whole groups out.

Plus, Israel never had to be sneaky about doing that before, and has snubbed Europe to its face on the issue in the past. See below (when Israel refused to meet with some Quartet diplomats).

    "We do not work with the Europeans on security issues. We don't want to work with the Europeans on security issues," said Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's spokesman, Asaf Shariv. "We work with the Americans on these issues. There are a lot of other issues, like economic, that we would be happy to work on with the Europeans," Shariv said.


My personal opinion is that he was just loose with his tongue and I have a decidedly different opinion about Sharon and thoughtful speech.

Remember when he pissed off Bush comparing Bush's coalition building to appeasing Hitler? He said:

    "Do not try to appease the Arabs on our backs," Sharon said. "We will be unable to accept that. Israel will not be Czechoslovakia, Israel will fight terrorism."


Yossi Sarid criticized this thoughtless remark by saying:

    groundless, miserable, uncalled for and dangerous . . . a show of ingratitude to America, without which Israel would have a hard time surviving.


Shimon Peres nuanced it beautifully, downplaying Sharon's gaffe and at the same time disavowing it without rankling the rift between Sharon and himself:

    The Americans are fighting a war against terror--our war. We are fighting the same war," Peres said. "President Bush has demonstrated real friendship to Israel. We must overcome the words that were said--words, they're just words--and return to deal with the fundamental issues.


Both examples are, IMO, examples of Sharon showing as much thoughtfulness as his nickname of the "Bulldozer" and I find material benefit to Israel or Sharon himself in neither.

My personal opinion is that he lacks wisdom in speech at times and that there's no cunning reason for these ejaculations.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:53 am
Galilite wrote:
I wonder if it's an attempt to get France out of the Middle Eastern decision makers group by series of diplomatic scandals.


You mean, the EU would 'fire' France, or that by this, the EU in totaliter would have to leave the 'decision makers group'?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 03:01 am
Galite wrote

Quote:
I cannot accept this near-hysterical tone of someone who didn't really research the subject before making far-fetched claims.



I missed this yesterday. If you are referring to me Galite, I would say I just tried to convey something of the outrage ("scandalised") of the Gaullist Deputy I heard. He took Sharon's remarks as an affront to France. I don't know what research is necessary before commenting on what someone (Sharon) said, and I don't think I made any claims, far fetched or not.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 03:37 am
Galilite wrote

Quote:
Do you really think a progressive country, a jewel of culture, working hard to support sympathetic and charismatic figures like Khomeini, Mugabe, Ceausescu or Bocassa the cannibal would miss a chance to stomp on the evil Zionist oppressor?


Er, now who's getting hysterical? "Evil Zionist oppressor" is your phrase not mine.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 04:58 am
Quote:
Israeli sources have downplayed the incident, saying that Sharon and other high-level officials regularly call on all Jews to immigrate to Israel. Immigration to Israel by Jews, or aliya, is a basic tenet of Zionism.
Source


Quote:
France: Sharon Not Yet Welcome Here
Contrary to many reports, French President Jacques Chirac did not say that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is not welcome in France. A French presidential source did say, however, that "a visit by the Israeli prime minister to Paris... won't be looked at closely until" Israel provides an explanation for Sharon's recent call to French Jewry.

The French Embassy's press office told Arutz-7 that Israel and France have been searching for a number of months for an acceptable date for a visit by Sharon to France. The spokesperson said that the search has now been suspended.

In a speech on Sunday, Sharon reacted to increasing anti-Semitism in France by citing the country's "wild anti-Semitism" and urging French Jews to move to Israel "before it's too late." Sharon has consistently called for Aliyah - Jewish immigration to Israel - from all over the world, and has said that Aliyah is his government's main priority. French officials reacted almost immediately: The Foreign Ministry issued a terse statement calling Sharon's remarks "unacceptable," while Jean-Louis Debre, president of France's lower house of Parliament, said that they were "inadmissible, unacceptable and, furthermore, irresponsible."

Jacques Revah, the charge d'affaires of the Israeli Embassy in Paris, said that Sharon's remarks were misunderstood and taken out of context.

Arutz-7's David Shapira, an expert on French-Israeli relations, said that Sharon's public remarks were "out of order," especially in light of the fact that the French government is fighting anti-Semitism.

AP reports that the latest French Interior Ministry figures show 510 anti-Jewish acts or threats in the first six months of 2004, compared to 593 for all of last year.
source: Arutz Sheva Israel National News
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 05:55 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Galilite wrote:
I wonder if it's an attempt to get France out of the Middle Eastern decision makers group by series of diplomatic scandals.
You mean, the EU would 'fire' France, or that by this, the EU in totaliter would have to leave the 'decision makers group'?
The former. As the relation between the two countries destabilize, it'll be more difficult for France to participate in any "peacemaking" activity. It looks like French influence in EU part of the Quartet is particularly bad for Israel.

It's only my guess - it might be wrong of course. Interesting how it all develops. For now it looks like both sides act to suppress the incident.

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I missed this yesterday. If you are referring to me Galite, I would say I just tried to convey something of the outrage ("scandalised") of the Gaullist Deputy I heard. He took Sharon's remarks as an affront to France.
I didn't know that - there were not any references to someone else... It looked like your own deductions to me.

If this is the case, I'm taking my remarks back.
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I don't know what research is necessary before commenting on what someone (Sharon) said, and I don't think I made any claims, far fetched or not.
I guess I owe you an explanation.

Suppose I say that UK is a country with a basket case economy, horrible climate and arrogant people which made its fortune on suffering of millions Indians, drugging Chinese with opium, etc. It's not true, and you'ld protest, right? So why are you surprised by my reaction?
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Er, now who's getting hysterical? "Evil Zionist oppressor" is your phrase not mine.
This is called "sarcasm"...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 06:41 am
Quote:
Suppose I say that UK is a country with a basket case economy, horrible climate and arrogant people which made its fortune on suffering of millions Indians, drugging Chinese with opium, etc. It's not true, and you'ld protest, right?


I might agree. Except the weather, its not that bad. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 07:18 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

I might agree. Except the weather, its not that bad. :wink:


Agreed, when I remember those really nice days, I had the any time within the last years over there.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 08:35 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Quote:
Suppose I say that UK is a country with a basket case economy, horrible climate and arrogant people which made its fortune on suffering of millions Indians, drugging Chinese with opium, etc. It's not true, and you'ld protest, right?


I might agree. Except the weather, its not that bad. :wink:
Forgot to mention that the arrogant people have a great dry sense of humor Wink .

Yep, the weather's not bad at all. For me anything below +30C is great.

In any case, truce, I hope :-) .
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 10:24 am
Quote:
In any case, truce, I hope


Yes of course. Shalom.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 11:26 am
Quote:
France calls on Israel to end row
France has said Israeli leader Ariel Sharon has yet to explain his remarks calling on Jews to flee France in the face of "spiralling anti-Semitism".
French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said he had not cancelled a visit to Israel, scheduled for later this year.


But, he said, he expected Israel to explain Mr Sharon's remarks first.

Prime Minister Sharon has said Jews are being persecuted in France and must leave for Israel - angering many French and French-Jewish officials.

Mr Barnier said the row was "a very serious misunderstanding".

He told the Europe 1 radio station it was "a matter of honour for our republic... that each citizen is granted the same protections, the same freedoms, whatever their religious belief".

Paris' pledge

The Israeli leader made his remarks at a gathering of American Jews in Jerusalem on Sunday.


French President Jacques Chirac responded by saying Mr Sharon would not be welcome in France until he had explained his comments.
The Israeli leader is thought to have been planning a French visit, though no date had been set for it.

Israeli officials later tried to soften Mr Sharon's comments, saying it was the duty of every Israeli leader to encourage Jews to migrate to the Jewish state.

They said Mr Sharon had also praised measures France had taken to curb anti-Semitism.

A recent rise in reported anti-Semitic attacks in France has prompted Paris to pledge to defend its Jewish minority.

The attacks have been linked to neo-Nazi groups and to elements in France's sizeable Muslim minority that claim to be angered by Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

Irritation

The BBC's Caroline Wyatt in Paris says Mr Sharon's remarks have left the French government seething with ill-concealed rage.

French Jews have also found Mr Sharon's comments unhelpful.

Richard Prasquier of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions was quoted by French news agency AFP as saying Mr Sharon had poured "oil on the fire in an unacceptable fashion".

Correspondents say there is irritation in France at the idea that life for Jews there is becoming dangerous - especially as the government has made every effort to show that anti-Jewish acts will be severely punished.

A week ago President Jacques Chirac rushed to condemn an apparently anti-Semitic attack on a Paris train that turned out to be a hoax.
Source
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/04/2024 at 11:49:12