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Is the Bible's god good?

 
 
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 09:12 am
Always hear how God is good, loving, infinitely compassionate, and the like. But as somoene sorta familar with His book, I find that a bit hard to accept.

If a person actually obeyed God's Bible, they'd be arrested with murder in no time. Take a look at some of the 'obey God by doing this' stuff:

"Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions [Hear about this one a lot though in the context of Islam, well guess where they got it from?]
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy [Another one people bash Islam for and yet, they got it from...]
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)"

lots more "fucked up stuff in the Bible" here,
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm


With all of this in every Bible, how can anyone claim God is good? Is it Opposite Day or something?
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HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 09:16 am
Aware of all the decidely not good stuff God wants us to do, something from the early Gnostics comes to mind about how they maintain the God of Christianity is in fact an evil god who killed the first actually good God who was female, loving, kind, etc.

Makes sense don't it.

"One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view. In the course of her journeyings, Sophia came to emanate from her own being a flawed consciousness, a being who became the creator of the material and psychic cosmos, all of which he created in the image of his own flaw. This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker and by his cosmic minions, the Archons or “rulers”. "
http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

Thus, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and others are worshipping the "flaw" "God."

Thinking more on it, it actually fits the facts. A female deity creates a male flawed version of herself we call "God." This god in turns creates flawed human beings in its own image who from the first creation rebels against their creator much as God did its own creator. This flawed deity then comes to co-opt and overthrow the original version of theologic will Gnosticism with its own Judaism and Christianity which is completely antithetical to the 'true' version. The flaw deity represents evil, rule-based theology but being of greater apeal to its own flawed creation human beings, comes to control the vast majority of the creations it created. And here we are. Unaware by and large we're following a god that doesn't make much sense because as flaws ourselves we look to the flawed creation deity as our creator, which o f course it is, but unaware of the circumstances of its' creation buying it's own deluisonal belief it's not itself a creation of a better version.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 10:40 am
It depends on what you mean by "good."

If you're a blind believer, then everything you've listed is "good" because the Bible's god dictates it, and your opinion that it is "bad" is what is really "bad."
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 10:49 am
Yeah, I know, God is truly a hard ass.

But you know, people are never happy. God used to make himself obvious, voices from the sky, calamities obviously from supernatural sources, harsh retribution for not following the rules, etc. but no one could argue that he wasn't paying attention. But we didn't like that arrangement.

So we get a new deal. He'd send his son to clarify and deliver the message in person then leave us to our own devices. We could then do anything we wanted with no interference, not even a hint of God around to trouble us.

Now we bitch and moan about 'Where is this spaghetti monster in the sky? You can't show me one shred of hard evidence. It's all bullshit, there is no God'.

People are never happy.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 10:54 am
@Leadfoot,
So, have you come up with a god that makes sense, yet?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 11:02 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
@Leadfoot,
So, have you come up with a god that makes sense, yet?

Of course. I even offered to talk about it. But most people just wanted to spend the time talking about evolution and convincing me that there was no God. Which is OK, but not what I wanted to talk about.

You wanna talk about it?
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 11:46 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
HesDeltanCaptain wrote:
. . .One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view . . .
A being referred to as 'wisdom' is the speaker in Proverbs ch. 8. 'He' refers to 'himself' as the first of God's creations. Don't know of any connection other than coincidence.

However, the Bible does relate a mutiny of a being against the true God, one that amounts to a kidnapping of the human race. But the entire story is really a flipflop from your exegesis. Is it possible there may be another explanation for the harsh world we live in?

And, yes; many worship the resistor without knowing.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 11:52 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Is he good? Nah. He's a jerk. He tips waitresses 2 pennies no matter if they give him good or bad service.

Plus he hits on stewardesses and waitstaff (no matter their gender).

Plus he spits at metermaids and yells at female bus drivers. He's an all around misogynist! Plus, I hear he's planning to vote for Donald Trump.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 12:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
I've talked about it on your, "A God That Makes Sense?" thread.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 01:17 pm
@InfraBlue,
I must have missed it.

What aspect of 'my God that makes sense' does not make sense to you? It has to be something I said, not some religious belief you are tagging me with.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 03:06 pm
@Leadfoot,
Well, you started by asking if it was possible to hypothesize a God that answers all the objections to religion(s) and at the same time is compatible with reason and human nature. Frank suggested a god that always existed and that occasionally just creates things to see what happens, one that can create beings incapable of comprehending a true creator.

You dismissed that as being too boring. You suggested a more interesting scenario in which the beings could comprehend the creator, and that every religion that you've been exposed to tells you that you can't comprehend God and that you're just not buying that story.

I responded by saying that already, you are introducing contradictions to the circumstances that we find ourselves in, what with your desire for an interesting god that isn't boring to you. You object to religion, but you're creating your own religion.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:23 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
HesDeltanCaptain wrote:

the God of Christianity is in fact an evil god who killed the first actually good God who was female, loving, kind, etc.


Way to seriously misunderstand Gnosticism. The Demiurge did not kill Sophia. Sophia is represented as the serpent in the Garden of Eden who told Eve to bite the apple, because that was the first path to wisdom (gnosis). Despite what the Demiurge said, neither Eve nor Adam died after eating the apple.

Gnostics, like Stoics, believed the true god is contained in all of us and all living things.

If you genuinely want to understand Gnostic beliefs this is probably the best book on the subject.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QJEQYHTPL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:41 am
@neologist,
If discussing Proverbs, a Jewish text, and the first of God's creations, that'd be Lilith. According to Jewish folklore, Eve was not God's first female creation, rather Lilith was. Created fromt he dust fo the Earth in the same manner as Adam, she was Adam's equal. Two equals though wont get along so Lilith rebelled wanting to have Adam for her sexual needs instead of only ever being around for his alone. So she took off, was cursed by God and made into a demon. Then God made Eve FROM Adam to be his subordinate.
0 Replies
 
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:42 am
@izzythepush,
Books? How quaint. Smile
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:09 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Reading a book a bit too much? That figures.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:10 am
i can remember being a kid and thinking his interactions with abraham were pretty dickish, i never really warmed to him after that
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 09:03 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
@Leadfoot,
Well, you started by asking if it was possible to hypothesize a God that answers all the objections to religion(s) and at the same time is compatible with reason and human nature. Frank suggested a god that always existed and that occasionally just creates things to see what happens, one that can create beings incapable of comprehending a true creator.

You dismissed that as being too boring. You suggested a more interesting scenario in which the beings could comprehend the creator, and that every religion that you've been exposed to tells you that you can't comprehend God and that you're just not buying that story.

I responded by saying that already, you are introducing contradictions to the circumstances that we find ourselves in, what with your desire for an interesting god that isn't boring to you. You object to religion, but you're creating your own religion.

Thanks for the recap, I would have reviewed it myself but bandwidth is in short supply here. Slower than dial-up and intermittent.

My bad, I should not have blown Franks suggestion off so flippantly. I'm going to ramble a bit but here's why I don't think there is a contradiction.

When I said "a God that makes sense" I meant *to us*. The arbitrary God that did what Frank suggested fails that test but also fails in terms of what an intelligent God would be expected to do as well.

You might argue that I am anthropomorphizing God (and many have made that charge) but why not? Archaeologists legitimately draw all kinds of conclusions from the trash piles of long dead civilizations, why is it unreasonable to draw conclusions about our own creator by looking at his creations (us)?

When we try to create conscious beings (AI) what model do we use? Ourselves of course, so why would it be unreasonable to assume that God would do the same?

When I said Franks concept was boring and not interesting enough, I was speaking for humans and God. I would find a creation of my own able to relate to me, it's maker, infinitely more interesting than one that could not. I think that would be God's choice too. It just makes sense to me.

If he had wanted beings that could not know him, he could have stopped with animals. I find Zoos boring and cruel. And putting sentient beings in a zoo purely for the entertainment of the zoo keeper would be unspeakably cruel. Our creator is obviously a hard ass but not a little boy frying ants with his magnifying glass for fun.

As for the charge of starting my own religion, I'm not sure what to say. I've never wanted to do such a thing. But if it made sense, I'd do it. God knows we could use one that did.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 09:14 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:
As for the charge of starting my own religion, I'm not sure what to say. I've never wanted to do such a thing. But if it made sense, I'd do it. God knows we could use one that did.



Really, that's what we need, another religion.

All religions make sense and none of them do. You might not think a religion makes sense, but a believer does. If they didn't think it made sense they wouldn't be believing it.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 09:29 am
@izzythepush,

Quote:

All religions make sense and none of them do. You might not think a religion makes sense, but a believer does. If they didn't think it made sense they wouldn't be believing it.


Belief alone is not enough to 'make sense'.
To qualify, a religion would have to be free of internal contradictions. I don't know any that fit the bill.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2015 09:37 am
@Leadfoot,
Making sense isn't some universal quantifier that measures things, it's subjective. If those who believe didn't think it made sense they wouldn't believe.

Just because something makes sense to you doesn't mean it makes sense to anyone else.
 

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