PARANOID SCHIZOPHENIA EPIDEMIC IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES

Several of the core assumptions of VBT's thesis here are so flawed as to invalidate all which follows.

A mosque is in no way synonymous with a church--it is more like a meeting house of the Society of Friends. A Muslim may worship wherever he or she stands at the moment. A mosque is a place to which Muslims resort for fellowship, and both to learn and to teach Islam. Many communitites in the Muslim world have no mosque, and suffer nothing from the lack. The core assumption here that the mosque serves as some sort of religio-political community center is specious. If a mosque is put to such use, it is either coincidental, or it is a deliberate tactic by Muslims who know that westerners see it as a kind of church, and therefore hesitate to attack.

Islam is not a monolithic religious sect, such as is Roman Catholicism. The first major schism in Islam took place shortly after the death of the Prophet, when Mohammed's son-in-law and first cousin, Ali, took the mystical path, the Shi'ia. Schismatics appear in Muslim history with the same predictable regularity as has been the case with Christianity. Mecca does not control the world of Islam. A faithful Muslim is expected to make the pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina in their lifetime, if their physical condition permits--but no higher religious authority resides in Saudia Arabia to which Muslims are answerable, or which can control the beliefs or actions of the faithful. The alim is adjudged to be so in the opinion of members of the community; the mullah must display a considerable knowledge of the Qran and the haddith to be accepted as such; the imam must display a greater degree of such learning--the same is true for the qadi, whose credentials must be verified by a recognized center of Islamic learning, an Islamic "university" if you will; the qadi's application of sharia will not be heeded without the credentials. There simply is no heirarchical structure of religious governance in Islam to correspond to that of Christianity. To that extent, it is closer to Judaism than Christianity.

The Muslim world stretches from the Atlantic coast of Africa to the Torres Straits north of Austrialia. The ethnic groups embraced therein are far more crucially governed by their ethno-cultural heritages than by the tenets of Islam. Many, perhaps most, live in a grinding poverty which they believe, rightly or wrongly, to result from the intentional exploitation of their respective nations' resources by western nations. That the extremist makes a religious appeal to the victims of the economic injustices of the Muslim world, and does so successfully, is no more to be wondered at than Thomas Jackson sending a message to Jefferson Davis that he had smitted the Amalakites hip and thigh with the Lord God as his shield and buckler. The enlistment of religion in the cause of murderous extremism is such an old and tawdry whore that it is increasingly incredible that she can be painted up well enough to fool anyone. However, one must not ignore the commonplace involved. Absent Islam, the root cause of the resentment of the peoples in what is the Muslim world would still exist. The religious divisions simply makes it easier for the likes of Bin Laden to recruit and to inspire the recruits. Absent Islam, the causus belli is still there.

Interestingly enough, Setanta, there was a mosque in Richmond. My first encounter with someone called Little David, a boy evangelist, who scared the hell outta me, was inside that edifice. Never understood one word that kid said, but he put on quite a show. I do remember one song that he sang, and that was "Haven of Rest." Looking back to those days, I see the total irony of it all. He was, of course, a total phoney, and the object was money. Wow! Sorry to have been reminded of those uncertain years.

thanks for your replies folks-i appreciate dissent-unlike the taliban....and i learn from it as well....but that said i have still reserved a place on my mantle for the nobel prize in medicine for my award winning thesis........as for being a dumb virginia redneck well shazam sgt carter i got book learnin on top of my tv ged-so i am good to go.....and as soon as i win the lottery i am moving into a double wide and getting my daughter fixed....not only that-but i am gonna donate GPS units to all nascar drivers so they can do more than drive in circles........yessir i will be a suthern feelanthrowpist

Apart from being a sadly feeble example of satire, no one here has accused you of being a dumb Virginian redneck. As it happens, i lived many of the happiest years of my childhood in Virginia, and have lived there as an adult. Sadly, that portion of Virginia which i once called home is now overrun with Yankees, who use northern Virginia as a "bedroom community." Had you chosen ClevelandTom as a screen name, i'd have asked you if you knew the capital of Ohio, and then suggested that your knowledge of the world doesn't extend more than a dozen miles down the Three C highway. The point was that you made (and apparently feel justified in continuing to make) a series of wildly extravagent statements about the nature of society in Muslim nations which clearly demonstrate profound ignorance of Islam, Muslim society and the political and economic realities of life in those nations.

In fact, for all of your obvious intelligence and despite your education, you fall into the trap which is characteristic of the most virulent of fundamentalist christians, be they from the north or the south: you equate the terrorism with Islam, and denounce it as an evil in the world, rather than recognizing that it is an adjunct, a descriptive detail of the description of the terrorist. I would suspect that you are not as superstitious as the fundamentalist christian, and the appeal your thesis about schizophrenia has is that it sounds more plausible than simply condemning the Muslims as an entire class for followers of a false god or doctrine. Functionally, however, the result is the same. You have smeared hundreds of millions of people based upon an almost idiotically facile description of their societies based upon a woefully uninformed speculation about the nature of those societies. In the process, you sidestep the entire issue of the policies of the United States having created the situation which allows fanatics such as Bin Laden to recruit for his terrorist programs. For all it's superficial sophistication, your thesis differs little from the bible-thumper who rants on about the Satanic nature of Islam.

sorry for my inate stupidity and ignorance of true muslim culture but u might admit theres one wee problem to non muslims visting the middle east-that being good righteous muslims who murder them cause they want a closed society.....one of bin ladens goals is to close off the middle east to infidels........that done the remaining muslims elsewhere in the whole will(he hopes) rise up and slaughter the infidels in their home countries........then at long last there will be a master race of pure muslims ruling the world....mein kamp deja vue anyone?....but then hitler wasnt a paranoid schizophrenic either-he was just a poor misunderstood prophet of luther who was brave enough to slaughter all those who disagreed with him...he was also a inventor and therefore a true visionary of the industrial age...by using 'the ovens" for mass extermination of jews and other impure types-he mechanized the production of death much as henry ford mechanized the production of cars.........as for american policies giving birth to binladen-umm hmm there again its the usual muslim violin music..........we forgot all about afghanistan and only sent $200 million in foreign aid...our failure to babysit the afghans gave birth to the taliban and binladen......o cmon.........................u are indeed a master of circular arguments but having a closed loop for a mind only means you can wear a a nascar hat with pride........if muslims are allowed to watch nascar that is....i am in fact open minded and u are the dogmatic....but again this is better than the usual mr ed type conversations one usually finds on aol.......so i commend you for having enough brain activity to defeat a bowl of lime jello in a eeg machine thinkathon.....best wishes oh enlightened one......shalom........

To reify means to regard or treat (an abstraction) as if it had concrete or material existence.

DSM IV and ICD 10 and such are useful when treated correctly.

Some diagnoses in DSM are likely "illnesses" in the traditional sense, in that there is a physical component.

Many are - and are only meant as - descriptions of commonly presented clusters of behaviour, affect and cognition. Such classification is useful in research and such, and can tell us a lot about TRENDS for outcome, because of the research that has already been done.

But.....

Let me give you an example of my point.

Conduct disorders are well described in DSM IV. They are descriptions of various levels of naughty behaviours of (mainly) boys.

They are useful, in that good research has been able to be done which tells us that a little fella with conduct problems, fitting criteria for Oppositional Defiant Disorder, at age three, is in need of intensive intervention - because if there is no successful intervention then, he is likely to go on to be a very unhappy, naughty adult who causes harm to himself and others, may well end up in prison and has a reasonable chance of getting pretty depressed in adolescence and may top himself.

Of course, ALL little people at three are oppositional and defiant! Good assessment is needed to filter out the normally naughty little munchkins (whose parents may need education and support if they are finding this too challenging!) from the munchkins in real trouble.

But - too often, said munchkin is taken to a doctor - who is no expert in mental health, and looks at the DSM IVR - makes what may be an accurate assessment - and tells parent "Freddy has Oppositional Defiant Disorder".

Munchkins who DO qualify for such a description usually have very troubled families - who feel really bad and to blame for Freddy. But - now? Freddy is ILL! Freddy CAN'T HELP IT! It's not my fault!

Trying to work effectively with a family who now have a child with an ILLNESS - via the means which may work - like family work, work on attachment repair, and assistance with good behavioural management can be hell. "Why do you want to see us? It's nothing to do with us! You are trying to blame me! I want a pill!"

Such families will find a doctor who WILL drug the munchkin.

This is an example of reification at work.

Whereas pills - and lots of other stuff - (psycho-education, practical support etc) likely WILL help a person with schizophrenia - especially if detected early and treated well at the beginning.

This is the last post that i will address to someone whose rhetorical style reeks of adolescent ridicule. I have not said that we are directly responsible for the rise of the Taliban. No one familiar with the history of Afghanistan since their current civil wars began in 1963 would make such a contention. Nor have i anywhere stated that we can solve the problems of the Muslim world through foreign aid. I have repeatedly stated that the perception of much of the population of the Muslim world is that we support repressive regimes which are responsible for the poverty which they endure. I have not stated that they are correct in this. A good case can be made, however, that we willfully and blindly seek our self interest by supporting whichever son-of-a-bitch looks mostly likely to be our buddy--and support for Hussein was provided on exactly that basis by the Reagan administration. In fact, a truly cost-effective way to rapidly remove the causus belli in the Muslim world would be to end all foreign aid, especially of a military character, to any middle eastern nation, including Israel.

I promise never to waste my time again in any of your threads. Please have the courtesy to address no more remarks to me--it makes you look bad anyway, most middle-school playgrounds could provide better examples of cutting sarcasm.

I dont know much about psychology, but on this question right here i can say that my mum's gone on holidays to Morocco and Yemen, one of my best friend's worked for half a year in Palestine and holidayed in Morocco and Egypt (and is soon to go to Iran) and I have several Moroccan and Turkish and one Iranian colleague - and I can assure you, non-muslims can easily visit the middle east without encountering good righteous muslims trying to murder them ...

oh well so i aint a rhodes scholar-i admit it....prior to 9/11 the only muslim i had ever heard of was cat stevens........i am not against islaam........and like 9 out of 10 americans i am tired of america having to respond all over the world to every dam thing.......sometimes i wish i lived in lichtenstein........i apologize for my weariness resulting in ridicule....thats my fault......been watching too much cnn.its always america this and america that.....and you begin to feel like its all on us..most americans want just one year in our lives when we arent the cause or the response to anything........i think my original idea of a epidemic of ps in muslim countries is still valid.........because countries with deteriorating infrastructures have less medical treament of any help available......i dont mean to smear islaam cause god knows we got some dangerous wackos here......and for what its worth i dont support a jewish state.......the ONLY thing i like about israel is that its a democracy..so anyway i like you folks you are all intelligent and i usally am...i shouldnt resort to ridicule......in my 5 years as a psych tech i saw alot of schizophrenia passed down thru families......in my reviews of medical records.......so i guess i extrapolated that to the current situation in the middle east-where u gotta admit insanity does seem rather epidemic..... thanks for the discussions and comments everyone

Thanks, Deb. Learned a new concept today. In other words, "This kid's a problem; here's a pill."

Tom, your profile is interesting, and boy do I agree with the last observation, which summarizes me to a T. No mini computer science lesson, just a machine that works.

Hey, Set. Tom's a sophist. Don't be mean, now.