8
   

Where does the authority to make everyone abide by laws come from?

 
 
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 07:56 am
From where do governments derive their authority of those they govern? Why are some poeple in authority over everyone else?

As humorously depicted in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" movie where King Arthur's trapsing along and encounters some peasants, one asks him who he is and he answers, "I am Arthur...Your King!" and the peasant responds, "Well I didn't vote for you!" - Arthur replies, "You don't vote for Kings."

Well, I didn't vote for the law makers who made most of the laws I'm now bound to obey or suffer the consequences. Nor did I vote for the laws themselves. So who gave the people who made those laws the authority intially? Some other person who gave themself the authority? And we have the gall to say we're a democracy?

Isn't every government then regardless of type and function just a totalitarian dictatorship? If you have to follow the will of some small group of people perhaps thousands of miles away how is that not a dictatorship? Because they tell you it isn't? Smile
 
Tes yeux noirs
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 08:33 am
Are you serious, or just trolling?
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  7  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 09:09 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Consent of the Governed

Also, could you slow down on digging up all the threads related to sexual behavior? It's making you look like a pervert
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 02:13 pm

Leviathan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_%28book%29

It's also the source of our universal human right to defend ourselves from an aggressor if there is no agent of the government present to defend us (which is why I knew the answer to your question straight off).
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 02:24 pm
@HesDeltanCaptain,
We are social animals, and social organization is a human need. To have a functional society, you need to have rules and norms. All of the social animals work this way.

The authority doesn't come from anywhere. It is just something that happens naturally when you get a bunch of humans living together.
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:19 am
@maxdancona,
So natives in Brazilian rainforests are using Brazil's system of laws to enforce their communal living? Or no?
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:22 am
@thack45,
I like sex, like discussing sex even more. Unlike you I guess, am comfortable doing so. If you're not that's fine, but your (or others') discomfort does not hold sway here or anywhere else. So if anyone should keep things to themselves, maybe it's you?
fresco
 
  5  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 06:13 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Sorry, but I agree with thack. Its a pity that a competent thinker like you has been sidetracked by the more adolescent threads that arise on this forum. I was was hoping that you would prove to be a worthy respondent, but I'm beginning to have my doubts.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 06:18 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Quote:
So natives in Brazilian rainforests are using Brazil's system of laws to enforce their communal living? Or no?


Of course not.

Natives in the Brazilian rainforest have their own social system with its own power system. They have their own set of rules and mores, and their own way of enforcing these rules when someone doesn't follow them.

The point is that humans always form themselves into societies with rules, hierarchies and a system of power to enforce social norms. This is an evolved trait.

0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:57 am
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Relax guy, I was only kidding. I had you pegged for a pervert when I saw that the age of consent thread was yours http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/thumbup.gif
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:32 am
Trolling can involve presenting an opinion from a different perspective. You can be both serious and trolling.
thack45
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:35 am
@maxdancona,
You forgot secret option C: a serious, trolling spambot
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 04:25 pm
US citizens are bound by US law wherever they happen to be. I do not know the authority for this.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:02 pm
@thack45,
thack45 wrote:

Consent of the Governed

Also, could you slow down on digging up all the threads related to sexual behavior? It's making you look like a pervert


Sex law is some of the worse abuse of the citizens at the hand of the American state, it is one of the things that we most need to talk about. Now Understand that prudes might not have the stomach for it, but so long as they keep their mouths shout enough to let their betters examine the subject all is fine.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:05 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Sorry, but I agree with thack. Its a pity that a competent thinker like you has been sidetracked by the more adolescent threads that arise on this forum. I was was hoping that you would prove to be a worthy respondent, but I'm beginning to have my doubts.


Examination of possible abuse from the state is about the most adult thing a person could do in conversation. THose who do not defend liberty are bound to lose it.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:06 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

US citizens are bound by US law wherever they happen to be. I do not know the authority for this.
We have no moral obligation to follow unjust laws, though the power of the state will almost certainly be used to punish us for our refusal of their sovereignty.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:09 pm
@HesDeltanCaptain,
Please know that those who do not follow the groupthink here will be told over and over that that they are not welcome. I have been told that almost ever since I showed up in 07, but I am a stubborn SOB and have to date refused to leave. The owner to date has also refused to throw me out, a choice for which he has been roundly condemned.

THere are some smart unprejudiced people here who are willing to speak truth, but not many.

Welcome for how ever long you choose to stay in this inhospitable climate.

BTW the answer is they get their authority by way of the consent of the governed, and silence is consent. If your government is abusive and you do not object then you have consented to your abuse. I encourage you to not do that.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 05:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
My own opinion is enough for me. And I claim the right to defend it against any consensus, any majority anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass. …

Bear in mind ladies and gentleman that every time you violate or propose to violate the free speech of someone else, you, in potencia, you are making a rod for your own back….Who is going to decide, to whom to you award the right to decide which speech is harmful, or who is the harmful speaker, or to determine in advance what the harmful consequences are going to be that we know enough in advance to prevent? To whom would you give this job; to whom are you going to award the task of being the censor?

http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/14/charlie-hebdo-hate-speech-and-christophe

Christopher Hitchens.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 06:00 pm
I suggest a grossroots political action. Join the libertine party and threaten seduction, er, secession.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:07 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

US citizens are bound by US law wherever they happen to be. I do not know the authority for this.


I know the authority for this. The founders made it quite clear...

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,


I personally thing this is a bunch of nonsense, but the founders of the US made their opinion on the matter quite clear.

0 Replies
 
 

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