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Probabilities of reincarnation?

 
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 11:44 pm
@Krumple,
Good advice
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 07:02 am
Strange. Nobody seems to be interested in discussing exactly what it might be that transmigrates. I wonder why that is?
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:53 am
@FBM,
Isn't it the soul/spirit/life force, etc.?

Neo doesn't think we have one, as per his interpretation of the Bible.

Krumple, paraphrasing some Buddhist anectodes and teachings, states that it doesn't matter, Buddhistically speaking.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:59 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Isn't it the soul/spirit/life force, etc.?

Neo doesn't think we have one, as per his interpretation of the Bible.

Krumple, paraphrasing some Buddhist anectodes and teachings, states that it doesn't matter, Buddhistically speaking.


What is this "soul/spirit/life force"? I know of the strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravitational forces (electroweak, yeah, I know), but nothing of a soul or spirit force. I'm pretty familiar with the periodic table of elements. What would a soul/spirit thing be made of? Or which of the fundamental forces does it engage with? Has anyone ever seen a soul/spirit? Measured it? Analyzed the process of transmigration? Is there any credible evidence that such a process exists anywhere outside the human imagination?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:06 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
neologist wrote:
Have you ever heard of Eckankar?
new age silliness?
Heck, no. They have been around a long time.

About 40 years ago, I was on the road between Darrington and Monte Christo when I came across a carload of hapless folks with a flat tire. While I was helping them back to the road, I noticed all wore large buttons reading I (heart) ECK.

So I asked.

Turns out I had helped some folks whose souls had migrated from Venus. Strange they had made it so far without basic travel skills.

Google it if you don't believe me.

It's almost as ancient as Dianetics.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:07 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Isn't it the soul/spirit/life force, etc.?

Neo doesn't think we have one, as per his interpretation of the Bible.

Krumple, paraphrasing some Buddhist anectodes and teachings, states that it doesn't matter, Buddhistically speaking.


What is this "soul/spirit/life force"? I know of the strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravitational forces (electroweak, yeah, I know), but nothing of a soul or spirit force. I'm pretty familiar with the periodic table of elements. What would a soul/spirit thing be made of? Or which of the fundamental forces does it engage with? Has anyone ever seen a soul/spirit? Measured it? Analyzed the process of transmigration? Is there any credible evidence that such a process exists anywhere outside the human imagination?

According to beliefs, it's supernatural.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:11 am
@InfraBlue,
Erm. I don't see that as a real answer. Just obfuscation/evasion/labelling. I gather that you feel the same way?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:35 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Erm. I don't see that as a real answer. Just obfuscation/evasion/labelling. I gather that you feel the same way?

Yep. That's as real as the answer is going to get.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:42 am
@InfraBlue,
Sho' 'nuff seems that way, dunnit?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 10:59 am
Hmm. . .
Blue seems to think ethereal soul is BS.
FBM seems to think ethereal soul is BS.
Neo agrees.
Can it be?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 12:50 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Hmm. . .
Blue seems to think ethereal soul is BS.
FBM seems to think ethereal soul is BS.
Neo agrees.
Can it be?

Sure, but that's where the agreement ends. You believe in ethereality, we don't.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:39 pm
@neologist,
I stop short of actually declaring it BS. I'm just asking for someone to show some evidence that such a thing exists. Or, failing that, exactly what constitutes the Self.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 08:47 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
I stop short of actually declaring it BS. I'm just asking for someone to show some evidence that such a thing exists. Or, failing that, exactly what constitutes the Self.
You are your self.
If your self should leave your body, please do not come visit me.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:00 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

FBM wrote:
I stop short of actually declaring it BS. I'm just asking for someone to show some evidence that such a thing exists. Or, failing that, exactly what constitutes the Self.
You are your self.
If your self should leave your body, please do not come visit me.


No worries about that last bit. I'm pretty sure I'd be preoccupied with other thoughts than tracking down online acquaintances. Wink But to say "you are your self" is just a tautology. What if I lose an arm or leg? Am I any less me? What about the Ship of Theseus paradox?
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2015 09:48 pm
Well, Im thoroughly confused. I think I can describe a tiny bit about self. My mother was diagnosed with Altzheimers when she was only 58. Its a very selfish disorder, initially she just seemed to be anxious, and unsure of herself. I won't belabor the entire process but by the time she was 72 her body just shut down. She disappeared by tiny pieces right in front of us until she disappeared entirely. She was gone a long time before she actually died. We were with her when she died, and I can still remember the shock I felt. I thought I had accepted the notion she wasn't going to get better, but my first thought was it was too late for a miracle to cure her. She might not still be here, but I still remember everything about her. To me she still has presence, that might not be what you folks are describing as self.
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 03:26 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
What if I lose an arm or leg? Am I any less me? What about the Ship of Theseus paradox?

I don't think that it would affect your self awareness and agency, among other things, which make up your selfhood.
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 03:48 am
@glitterbag,
Yeah, after my sister suffered severe brain damage and persisted in a vegetative state she wasn't anything like herself previously.

My memories of her previous to that persist.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 05:30 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

FBM wrote:
What if I lose an arm or leg? Am I any less me? What about the Ship of Theseus paradox?

I don't think that it would affect your self awareness and agency, among other things, which make up your selfhood.


OK, sense of agency is exactly that, a sense. It's generated in the brain in an ongoing manner. It's not an entity, it's brain activity. Are people under general anesthesia no longer selves? When people say "myself," are they referring to their sense of agency? Or something else?

I've been looking into this for years, and the more I look, the more reification I see. What am I missing? There's the conventional definition of self, but then there's the strict, analytical definition. I use the conventional definition like everyone else in everyday life, but when the discussion takes a deeper turn, I start asking questions more strictly. Hope that's not annoying. But I suspect that it is. Wink
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 12:06 pm
@FBM,
I think that as long as people are only temoprarily unconscious they're still "selves," they're merely on standby.

By reification, are you saying that the "self" is not a real thing?

Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jul, 2015 12:59 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

By reification, are you saying that the "self" is not a real thing?


Well according to the Buddha, he taught that there are five aspects that make up a being. These are the five skandhas and if you investigate them, none of them have a self or contain the self.

Let me use an analogy to explain it. A car is made up of parts, lets simplify it by saying a car is made up of only five parts. A motor, wheels, a frame, steering wheel and seats. If you were to disconnect these parts would you still call it a car? If you remove the motor, would you refer to the motor as a car? If you tossed out the seats would you still call it a car? No. It is ONLY a car when all the parts are assembled and functioning. Remove any one of them and the car ceases to be a car.

The five skandhas are form, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness. There is no self contained within any of them. It is only by them coming together does a being arise. Without them there is no being. It really needs to be examined to fully understand it. Just a basic understanding will still leave you assuming that there is a self, and that the self IS the culmination of these five aspects. Or you may assume that the Buddha is wrong, these five aspects are in error.

This is the whole point in Buddhism. Once you see that these are the case and the self is an illusion it puts you on the path. Just believing them to be the case is not enough. You have to see into them.
0 Replies
 
 

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