0
   

Mass Recall

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2015 07:35 am
@oralloy,
You want an automatic weapon but you dont want to play soldier. You dont need a weapon. It is American rights. To kill primary school children. So in all the time you have had a weapon, which you dont need, how many people have you killed?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2015 05:36 pm
@Ionus,
You keep including that term "need". The concept of need doesn't apply in this situation. It's like you are using colors to describe a sound.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2015 05:37 pm
@Ionus,
OK, dealing with that article, starting with the headline.


Quote:
The Supreme Court Ruling on the 2nd Amendment Did NOT Grant an Unlimited Right to Own Guns

Sort of a nonsense saying there. What does "unlimited right" even mean?


Quote:
I was stunned to find that the decision is hardly the blanket protection for gun ownership that the National Rifle Association and adamant gun rights people claim.

Actually it is everything that we claim it is.


Quote:
Nor is it the sweeping defeat that those who want gun control lament.

The gun control movement is all about violating our rights. This ruling prevents them from doing that. Sounds like a defeat to me.


Quote:
There is no question that District of Columbia v. Heller was precisely the sort of judicial activism the conservative justices of the Supreme Court promised not to do.

Upholding Constitutional rights is not in any way judicial activism.


Quote:
ruled that the Second Amendment gives Americans the right to own guns for personal self-defense, despite the amendment’s opening language - “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, ” - which pretty clearly says that gun ownership was specifically preserved by the founding fathers in the interest of the common defense against a tyrannical government (remember, this was the issue on their minds back then).

So many errors.

First, the Second Amendment does not "give" a right. Rather, it protects a pre-existing right.

Second, the Framers did not intend that the militia be used against a tyrannical government. They intended the militia to be used by a non-tyrannical government.

Third, the Constitution protects all rights that existed in English Common Law, and that includes the right to carry a gun for self defense when you go about in public.

Fourth, the first half of the Second Amendment is a requirement that the government always keep a militia on hand, so that a militia is always available when the government needs to enforce the law.


Quote:
On pp. 54 and 55, the majority opinion, written by conservative bastion Justice Antonin Scalia, states: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…”. It is “…not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

“We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller (an earlier case) said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time”. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of ‘dangerous and unusual weapons.’ ”

The court even recognizes a long-standing judicial precedent “…to consider… prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons.”

That language refers to many of the gun control ideas being discussed now. Prohibitions on carrying ‘dangerous and unusual weapons’ certainly might apply to assault rifles.

Not even close. There is nothing about a pistol grip on a rifle that makes it a dangerous or unusual weapon.


Quote:
Ammunition clips that hold 100 bullets…30…even 10, are hardly ‘usual’, certainly not for self-defense, or hunting.

This is completely untrue.

Magazines with 10 or more rounds are extremely common in self defense. And 30 round magazines are well within the norm for self defense.

As far as hunting goes, it depends on the game. Varmint hunters are known to use 30 round magazines.


Quote:
“..conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” might include requiring that everybody who wants to own a gun has to get a permit, and have a background check,

It will not, however, allow the gun control movement to bar people from buying guns without a good reason as to why they should be prevented from having a gun.

Thus the gun control movement is thwarted on one of their major goals.


Quote:
“…laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings.” That certainly seems to challenge the NRA’s idea that more guns in schools is a good idea.

That says nothing about whether more guns in schools is or is not a good idea.


Quote:
And perhaps most striking, the majority ruling in Heller specifically leaves open the question of whether the public has a right to carry “concealed weapons”, a bedrock claim of gun rights advocates.

The Constitution protects our right to carry a gun when we go about in public.

The Constitution does not specify a right to carry openly or concealed. Therefore there is no violation if the government should choose one or the other.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:01 pm
@oralloy,
Try taking their automatic weapons away from them. It is a need, not a want. You have lost the plot if you think these gun toting clowns dont need them. They need them to shoot terrorists and bad guys. How many times has that happened? None.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:03 pm
@oralloy,
Thank you for a detailed response. Unfortunately I do not have the time to point out your many errors, and it would turn into an opinion based denial on your part. I will leave it for others to judge the merits of both.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 01:31 am
@Ionus,
I am confident that no one will be able to point out any errors in my post.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 01:32 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Try taking their automatic weapons away from them. It is a need, not a want. You have lost the plot if you think these gun toting clowns dont need them. They need them to shoot terrorists and bad guys. How many times has that happened? None.

Using "need" when discussing guns in America is like using colors to describe taste. You are using terms that have no meaning.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2015 08:34 am
@oralloy,
I see you are in avoidance.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 03:38 am
@Ionus,
As long as you keep using terms that have no meaning when referring to a free country, what can I do other than keep pointing out that your terms don't make any sense in the context that you are using them?

Remember, we're free here in America. Stuff that would make perfect sense when referring to serfs and slaves, doesn't have any applicability when talking about American citizens.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 03:48 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
As long as you keep using terms that have no meaning when referring to a free country, what can I do other than keep pointing out that your terms don't make any sense in the context that you are using them?
You really think your opinion and definitions are all there is?

Quote:
Remember, we're free here in America. Stuff that would make perfect sense when referring to serfs and slaves, doesn't have any applicability when talking about American citizens.
Free? Your poor die from preventable disease, you lock up and take away the freedom of more of your own citizens than any other nation, you have more massacres than any other nation - personally I like being alive and I wouldn't consider myself free if killed by your gun laws.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 04:10 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
You really think your opinion and definitions are all there is?

I haven't really offered my opinion, but in my opinion freedom is wonderful. It makes life worth living.

As for definitions, if you use words that don't apply to us, it hard to come up with a response. It's like using colors to describe sound. It just doesn't work.



Ionus wrote:
Free?

Yes. America is the last free country on earth.



Ionus wrote:
Your poor die from preventable disease, you lock up and take away the freedom of more of your own citizens than any other nation, you have more massacres than any other nation - personally I like being alive and I wouldn't consider myself free if killed by your gun laws.

The only people who could be said to be killed by our gun laws would be the people who were illegally disarmed and were then killed while unable to defend themselves.

Luckily the NRA helps to protect us from such atrocities.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 04:26 am
@oralloy,
Your posts are so full of nothing but opinion. You provide your definition of need and say it doesnt apply to guns. But you also deny that people dont need guns they only want them.

Quote:
your terms don't make any sense in the context that you are using them?
See? Opinion. You dont like the meaning so you think you can bluff your way out with opinion.

Quote:
America is the last free country on earth.
See? Opinion.

Quote:
The only people who could be said to be killed by our gun laws would be the people who were illegally disarmed and were then killed while unable to defend themselves.
See? Opinion.

You can not debate without being sleazy with the topic. I think there is enough above to prove your lack of honesty.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 05:06 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Your posts are so full of nothing but opinion.

Mostly they've been pleas to use terms that apply in the context of the conversation. This repeated use of the word "need" is incomprehensible to me.


Ionus wrote:
You provide your definition of need and say it doesnt apply to guns.

I've not defined need.

I said it had no meaning when applied to free people.


Ionus wrote:
But you also deny that people dont need guns they only want them.

I've not confirmed or denied anything. I've said that "need" is a nonsense term, and asked for something composed of terms that actually make sense to me.

I won't be able to even begin to confirm or deny anything until I see words that I can comprehend.


Ionus wrote:
See? Opinion. You dont like the meaning so you think you can bluff your way out with opinion.

No, that is a factual matter. Using "need" in a context where it has no meaning truly doesn't make any sense.


Ionus wrote:
See? Opinion.

That America is the last free country on earth is a factual matter.

Are there any other countries that protect a citizen's right to carry a gun when they go about in public?


Ionus wrote:
See? Opinion.

That is another factual matter.

It could possibly be that I am mistaken on the facts, but I am truly unaware of any other way that someone could be said to have died due to our gun laws.


Ionus wrote:
You can not debate without being sleazy with the topic. I think there is enough above to prove your lack of honesty.

I am the most honest person you will ever converse with. But don't expect me to understand when you use terms that have no meaning in the context that you are using them in.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 05:27 am
@oralloy,
This post of yours is unbelievable. You insist the term need does not apply to guns. There has been no plea on your part it has been a silly avoidance to not use the word need. You think by being slippery you are making headway, when it is obvious you dont know the difference between fact and opinion.

In the belief that you have some mental illness, lets look at this:
Quote:
That America is the last free country on earth is a factual matter.
Give me a ref for this fact. It should be very common knowledge.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 05:59 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
You insist the term need does not apply to guns.

Nonsense. I point out that the term does not apply to free people.


Ionus wrote:
There has been no plea on your part it has been a silly avoidance to not use the word need.

I have endlessly asked for terms that actually make sense. It is impossible to reply to nonsense words.


Ionus wrote:
You think by being slippery you are making headway, when it is obvious you dont know the difference between fact and opinion.

A fact is something that is concrete and true. (A person might be honestly mistaken about what is true however.)

An opinion is how someone feels about something.


Ionus wrote:
Give me a ref for this fact. It should be very common knowledge.

As I said in my previous post, are there any other nations in the world where people retain the right to carry guns when they go about in public?

Perhaps I've missed some other coutry where people still retain that right, but so far as I know, the US is the very last.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 06:23 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Quote:
Ionus wrote: You insist the term need does not apply to guns.
Nonsense. I point out that the term does not apply to free people.
Rubbish. This is what you said:
Quote:
When dealing with guns in America, it is best to eliminate "need" from the lexicon.
This is the sort of dishonesty you commit.

Quote:
are there any other nations in the world where people retain the right to carry guns when they go about in public? Perhaps I've missed some other coutry where people still retain that right, but so far as I know, the US is the very last.
Yes, lots of countries. Here the process is you must be a registered owner and you must have a registered weapon. Then you can apply for concealed firearm permit. So you were wrong factually and in your opinion.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2015 06:58 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Rubbish. This is what you said:
Quote:
When dealing with guns in America, it is best to eliminate "need" from the lexicon.

I said it many different ways as I endlessly repeated my plea for terms that actually make sense. Overall my context should be pretty clear.

However, taking just that one sentence alone, notice the words IN AMERICA. There is something about America that makes things completely different from anywhere outside America: people are free in America.


Ionus wrote:
This is the sort of dishonesty you commit.

I'm sorry that you are bothered by my freedom. However my unashamed embrace of my freedom is not in any way dishonesty.


Ionus wrote:
Yes, lots of countries. Here the process is you must be a registered owner and you must have a registered weapon. Then you can apply for concealed firearm permit. So you were wrong factually and in your opinion.

No. Where you are, the process is that people who try to own a weapon of the sort useful for self defense are denied permission to have one. And people who apply for a concealed firearm permit are likewise denied.

In a free country like America, people have an actual right to own such weapons, and carry them when we go about in public.
0 Replies
 
 

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