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What if the Romans had discovered America?

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This is a hypothetical question from a non- poli sci guy who has been interested for a while about the concept of what the world would be like if the Romans had colonized North America. This is based on a few interesting theories from an old Latin teacher and a car commercial that intrigued me. Basically, I understand that there was very nearly an expedition launched across the Atlantic by the Romans, but it was called off.
The basics that I presume are that a.) The empire may have survived it's own civil war and not broken and fallen, b.) Europeans would not have come about by the mating of Romans and the tribes in Europe, thus making them a small part of history, c.) Christianity, therefore, may not have grown or survived, eliminating our calendar system, and d.) according to said Latin teacher, the Romans would have invented the car by 1200 A.D. and would currently be terraforming Mars.

I understand that poli sci. is basically best guesses and that no one will ever truly know what the world would be if this had happened, but I ask anyone interested- esp. Asherman, having read his other poli sci. posts- to theorize.

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Tony Soprano would be president.....

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Re: What if the Romans had discovered America?

adt4m wrote:

This is a hypothetical question from a non- poli sci guy who has been interested for a while about the concept of what the world would be like if the Romans had colonized North America. This is based on a few interesting theories from an old Latin teacher and a car commercial that intrigued me. Basically, I understand that there was very nearly an expedition launched across the Atlantic by the Romans, but it was called off.

Irish monks - like the semi-legendary sixth-century figure St. Brendan - evidently explored and lived on several North Atlantic islands.
The Norsemen colonized the Faeroes beginning in the eighth century, Iceland in the ninth, Greenland in the tenth, and North America in the eleventh.
And the Arabs have been to the Canary islands about 900, although those were known to the Romans.

For a society that tried to build a world empire, the Romans had a mind-numbing lack of interest in geography. We have records of one Roman legion crossing the Sahara, some trading missions to India, and one diplomatic mission to China, and that is the totality of Roman exploration. The Romans never went into the Baltic, or explored Ireland, or penetrated Eastern Europe. Very few Romans wrote about neighboring cultures or languages.
So, what is your source of "Basically, I understand that there was very nearly an expedition launched across the Atlantic by the Romans, but it was called off. "?

To answer your question: would have been the same as in their other colonies - although, due to the distance, it would have been just a very short time, they could have stayed there (see: the Romans in Britain).

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Quote:

d.) according to said Latin teacher, the Romans would have invented the car by 1200 A.D. and would currently be terraforming Mars.

Methinks your Latin teacher needs to lay off the sauce! Wink

Wink

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Laughing

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At the risk of further embarassment, let's say that the Romans had invented or discovered a new way of building boats that had allowed them to make such a voyage, and for some reason they decided to make it (perhaps to find a way to India as Columbus did- they did trade in India, I now know). Is it possible that they would have landed and been able to maintain a colony that lasted more than that of the English colonies (because the Native Americans would pose far less a threat than the barbarians did, and because they would have recognized a far greater potential for growth than the tiny British isles), and therefore have colonized the entire continent and grown strong enough in numbers, government, and their religion to survive the fall as it happened in the former territories of Rome, therefore being able to maintain the same government, way of life, and religion despite the fall of the 'eastern' Rome?

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You mean, they invented/discovered this new kind of boat before or after they invented the car?
(Would be agood idea 'after', so they could use it as a ferry or landing craft!)

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fishin' wrote:

Quote:
d.) according to said Latin teacher, the Romans would have invented the car by 1200 A.D. and would currently be terraforming Mars.

Methinks your Latin teacher needs to lay off the sauce!

Or the acid.

adt4m wrote:

At the risk of further embarassment, let's say that the Romans had invented or discovered a new way of building boats that had allowed them to make such a voyage, and for some reason they decided to make it (perhaps to find a way to India as Columbus did- they did trade in India, I now know). Is it possible that they would have landed and been able to maintain a colony that lasted more than that of the English colonies (because the Native Americans would pose far less a threat than the barbarians did, and because they would have recognized a far greater potential for growth than the tiny British isles), and therefore have colonized the entire continent and grown strong enough in numbers, government, and their religion to survive the fall as it happened in the former territories of Rome, therefore being able to maintain the same government, way of life, and religion despite the fall of the 'eastern' Rome?

Just a guess....Bush Jr. would still be President one way or the other.

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what about this one?
The native Americans would have wupped the romans Asses and taken over the world thus bring around the 2nd rise of the Azteks. Did you see Troy? Those people had too many gods man. And the Blackfeet would have scalped and desimated the Romans hands down.

I have a little Blackfoot in my veins.
like very very little 1/64

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Well, I think you have an interesting question there, and one that is not stupid.

The short answer, as alluded to before, is that the Romans did conquer a big part of Africa, but a similar scenario did not occur there after the fall of the city. So probably the same thing would have happened to New World colonies.

Don't forget, the Romans also would not have guns yet, so dealing with the Indians might not have been so easy. Some historians think the Skraelings, (Native Americans) drove off the Norsemen. And everyone knows the Norsemen were tough.

Still, the fact that the colonies would be so far from Rome might well contribute to the scenario you outlined about the former colony carrying on the civilization after the founding city is in ruins. They would have to be different, to an extent, to survive the New World.

If Rome did not fall, and the Dark Ages did not occur, the invention of mechanical devices, possibly including the car, would have been pushed forward in time. After all, was not the Rennaissance known as the time when religiosity was overthrown and the classic Greek and Roman texts rediscovered? And the Rennaissance was considered the bridge to the modern era, which starts around 1750 or so.

So with no Dark Ages, Rome is automaticallly in the Rennaissance, and the Age of Invention gets moved up accordingly. Your teacher is speculating, not nuts.

I think it is a very plausible scenario. I do believe that European history would continue though, since the New World settlements probably would be too far away to come back and conquer Europe for centuries, at least. If they ever could.

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Setanta may have more to say about this than me, but I'd point to the failure of the Romans to consolidate as a maritime empire precluding their finding and colonising the Americas. The Viking settlements were a victim of climate, rather than just friction with the natives, the original contact and settlement occured during an inter-glacial and was abandoned during the 'Little Ice Age'.

I'd say that the exploration and conquest of the Americas owed more to the superior class of ships that developed in the centuries after the decline of the Empire. Another big factor would have been the 'retreat' back to Rome in the 4th Century, producing a much more insular world-view, one that relied on the familiar and didn't seek out new lands.

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kelticwizard wrote:

The short answer, as alluded to before, is that the Romans did conquer a big part of Africa, but a similar scenario did not occur there after the fall of the city.

http://www2.worldbook.com/wc/features/explorers/assets/maps/Rome,%20Ancient%20animation.gif

It really depends on how you define "big" and "Africa". :wink:

Provinces of Roman Africa

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Bitching image Walter!!

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