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Moses thought the world was at one time perfect. What happened?

 
 
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 07:08 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Many natural phenomena have been used...


Every argument from complexity that I've seen has been summarily shot down by either scientists or science-literate types. Do you know of one that has survived?

Quote:
And, you can see how my assertion about the sublime nature of scripture has been received in this thread.


Man has produced a lot of sublime works.

Quote:
One thing that remains, however, is the fulfillment of prophecy...


How does this avoid being the Gambler's Fallacy? Counting the few random hits and conveniently forgetting the much more numerous misses? I'd wager that just about any city you name will be a pile of rubble one day, given enough time.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 07:28 pm
@FBM,
Depends on whose point of view.
I'll leave it at that
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 07:30 pm
@neologist,
Okee-dokee. I reckon sans evidence, points of view are all we have.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 07:44 pm
@FBM,
One little bit of evidence for you.
You still misunderstand the meaning of evidence.
FBM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 08:06 pm
@neologist,
Please explain.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 08:58 pm
@FBM,
Simple example.
You find a scratch on your car.
It's evidence.
But, evidence of what?
FBM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 08:59 pm
@neologist,
It's evidence that something scratched my car. Could you explain the relevance of that example? You lost me there.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 09:00 pm
@FBM,
Good for you.
Was it that snotty neighbor kid?
FBM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 09:02 pm
@neologist,
No idea. Could've been an inanimate object, for all I know.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 09:06 pm
@FBM,
Are you saying that evidence, by itself, is inconclusive?
I rest my case.
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2015 09:09 pm
@neologist,
What's the hypothesis that you're trying to use it as evidence to support? Without a hypothesis, it's just a scratch on a car.
0 Replies
 
CVeigh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:30 am
@neologist,
Sorry, you don't even deserve a mudpie for those juvenile comments.

Your conclusion seems to be that God couldn't be perfect until He created something and proved it and His whole reason for creation was to do that. I'm sorry but that shows a real lack of consistency. SO what would perfection be? Your idea ? or God's idea ?
0 Replies
 
MethSaferThanTHC
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2017 10:49 am
@neologist,
Moses had faith ahead of the people of his time.
Lol, moses frustrated at man; drops and breaks tablets....
0 Replies
 
daverod
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jun, 2017 09:48 pm
@rosborne979,
If he was, who thought Moses up??
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jun, 2017 12:14 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Moses is generally thought to have written the first five books of the bible This is how he described God's work in Genesis:
Quote:
. . . behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:31)
A lot of bad stuff happened after that - very bad.

Yet, he continued to maintain God's work was perfect.
Quote:
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.(Deuteronomy 32:4)
So, did Moses have it all 100% wrong? Or, is there another explanation that takes Moses' point of view into account as he continued his writing?

I've mended my kevlar helmet and I'm ready. So fire away.


Look at this from another perspective.

God is the evil mob boss. Write down somethin' he don't like an you might get wacked. Or he was kissing ass. This sort of thing occurs a lot. Like no one having an issue when god kills every first born male child in Egypt. And Job didn't have any issue when god tortured him to prove a point. Nope god isn't an asshole. He just sorta reads that way but if you get to know him your bias and fear will kick in and you'll see him in a whole new light.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2021 03:36 am
@Krumple,
He is a God of Justice. "As you sow, so shall ye reap." Pharaoh ordered the midwives to kill all the new born male Israelite babies, but to let the female live, when that didn't work, he ordered that the male babies were to be exposed in the River Nile.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2021 06:25 am
neither historicity nor modern archaeology can confirm whether some character, name-a Moses ever even existed.

SO, like evrything else in our Abrahamic mythopoeia traditions (Jews, Xtians, Muslims) we make **** up and live a lie by some line of campfire parables.

Like Davy Crockett, if these guys didnt exist wed have to make em up.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2021 05:00 pm
Moses made dualism popular. Spiritual materialism became the "credo in concrete."

On a lighter note:
"Moses thought the world was at one time perfect. What happened?"
Bitch Trump arrived.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b5/93/fa/b593fa32188f8d4916ac1c71620fad39.jpg
Bitch Stewie
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2021 08:58 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
Did Moses really exist? I always thought he was just an allegorical story in the fairy tale.

That's a tough question. The story is from well before the existence of Jewish written records. The Book of Kings is reasonably accurate back to about 900 BC, but Biblical accuracy starts to break down when you go back any earlier.

There is some evidence that the stories in 1 Samuel about King Saul and about David as a bandit chieftain are reasonably true. And it does appear that Shiloh was a religious center in the West Bank area before the time of David and Saul. The portrayal of pre-kingdom life in Judges seems compatible with what archaeology shows pre-kingdom life was like. Anything before that, however, and we enter the territory of "plausible but no actual evidence".


The only large scale migration out of Egypt was the Hyksos. Could Moses have been the leader of the Hyksos, and could the Hyksos have been ancestral to the ancient Israelites?

It's possible. But there is no evidence to prove that it is true.


Could the Exodus from Egypt have only been a small band of escaped slaves with Moses as their leader? Could this small band of slaves picked up a new religion on their way home from Egypt? And could their story of escape from slavery with the help of a new deity then turn out to be inspirational and wildly popular in the societal chaos in Canaan in the wake of the Bronze Age collapse, helping to form the new identity of the Israelites as a people?

It's possible. But there is no evidence to prove that it is true.


Textual evidence does point to the escape across the Red Sea as being especially ancient writing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_Sea#Origin
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2021 02:22 am
@oralloy,
The Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 215 years.
Apopis, is said to have been a Hyksos king of ancient Egypt and reigned c 1585-42 B.C., and Apopis was the Last of the Shepherd Kings?

From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it ‘WITHOUT STRIKING A BLOW’ and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Is there any other way that we can date the Exodus of the Israelite shepherds? There certainly is.

1 Kings 6: 1; States that it was 480 years after the exodus, that Solomon began to build the temple, which took seven years to complete. According to Josephus the Jewish historian, the temple stood for four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days before it was sacked and burned by Nebuchadnezzar’s forces in 587 B.C.

587 B.C., + the four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days, rounded off to four hundred and seventy and one years that the Temple stood + the seven years it took to build, after the 480 years since the Exodus and we have 587 B.C., + 471 years = 1058 B.C., + 7 years = 1065 B.C., + 480 years = 1545 B.C.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

1562+38=1600 B.C. 1562-38=1524 B.C. According to Kathleen Kenyon’s finding, the fall of Jericho occurred between 1600 B.C. and 1524 B.C.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.
 

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