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Moses thought the world was at one time perfect. What happened?

 
 
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 02:45 pm
@neologist,
I suppose that the followers of the judeo-christian traditions who consider it believe roughly as I or you have stated. To your previous post, I don't think many here are versed in the Pentateuch nearly enough to hazard a guess as to the personal feelings of the writer(s). Further, there is clearly doubt here that this Moses wrote it at all, which would make it much easier to see how the god's work was continuously portrayed as perfect, regardless of all that had happened to Moses
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 04:44 pm
@neologist,
Oh, I think there's a consistent theme. It's just that the theme I now see/read is different from the one you seem to see/read.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 06:20 pm
@ehBeth,
There is a difference, I think, between understanding Moses' theme and believing it.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 07:05 pm
@thack45,
I understand the contoversy over Moses' authorship; but I continue believing he wrote, not only the Pentateuch, but also the book of Job. It seems not relevant to this thread, IMO.

I believe you are correct in your assessment of the local understanding. But I consider Moses' personal feelings also not important. He willingly expressed his failure at Horeb and subsequent correction while there was no apparent necessity for him to include it.

As for why Eden was lost, I believe the account of Genesis, chapter 3 and the allegation made by Satan in Job 2:4, among other notations, cast bright light on the issues granting Satan his dominion over world affairs, the explanation for what happened.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 07:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
You regularly and continually assert that this GOD created (or was responsible for) an existence that was perfect...until screwed up by two humans.
Essentially correct, Frank. But the true villian is the chief mutineer, the one who convinced Eve that God had deprived her of something she needed.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2015 07:27 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

...
Why not put prophets in every society, rather than just one? Why not spell it out in the stars or make miracles a global, daily event? Why not just appear to everyone, for that matter? I don't think that would be difficult for a being that created the entire universe.


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/dunno_1.gif
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 03:08 am
@neologist,
The "story of the fall" is an absurdity, Neo...an abomination. The fact that you guess it to be an accurate account of what happened is incredible to me. Alternately, the fact that you guess it to be a good allegory for what happened is incredible to me.

I personally guess it to be a remarkably defective myth...about on a par with the myths detailing the events in the lives of the gods of ancient Greece and Rome.

The fact that you guess that a person named Moses wrote not only the Pentateuch, but also the book of Job...is interesting.


0 Replies
 
VanMan
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:40 pm
@neologist,
Moses never wrote anything. He just did what he was told to do. I'd suggest you read the bible completely before saying anything. You wouldn't appear so foolish.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:46 pm
I saw your post the first time. No need to repeat yourself.

It makes you appear foolish

Would saying Moses penned those words satisfy your need for clarity?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:59 pm
@thack45,
thack45 wrote:
there is clearly doubt here that this Moses wrote it at all, which would make it much easier to see how the god's work was continuously portrayed as perfect, regardless of all that had happened to Moses


yup - maintaining the party line
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:59 pm
@neologist,
Absolutely. Non-believers can still understand the message and intent.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 02:18 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Moses is generally thought to have written the first five books of the bible This is how he described God's work in Genesis:
Quote:
. . . behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:31)
A lot of bad stuff happened after that - very bad.

Yet, he continued to maintain God's work was perfect.
Quote:
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.(Deuteronomy 32:4)
So, did Moses have it all 100% wrong? Or, is there another explanation that takes Moses' point of view into account as he continued his writing?

I've mended my kevlar helmet and I'm ready. So fire away.

Your assumption that a "Moses" wrote the Pentateuch notwithstanding, yeah, mystics tend to run at the mouth before thinking about what they're actually saying, re Deuteronomy 32:4.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 07:35 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
He is the Rock



NO, Doowayne Johnson is THE ROCK!
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 07:47 pm
@farmerman,
Do you smell what the god is cooking?
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 07:57 pm
@thack45,
I can see the bbq from here.

<channelling the NorthStar, S. Palin>
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 09:28 pm
Moses supposes erroneously...
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 09:37 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:
Moses supposes erroneously...
Please explain why you suppose Moses supposes erroneously, just to be sure your supposition is not erroneous.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 07:52 am
@neologist,
Will do, in a few days. I'm super busy right now.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 03:39 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Moses is generally thought to have written the first five books of the bible...
Firstly we have the classic logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum concluding that a proposition is true simply because most people believe it.
neologist wrote:
This is how he described God's work in Genesis...
Secondly we have the classic logical fallacy of argument from authority concluding that a proposition is true simply because a (supposed in this case) authority made the claim.

If you are going to go for your usual Christian apologetics route you'll need far more than a pithy helmet, so don't pith me off!
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 07:04 pm
@Chumly,
It's never a good idea to worship your brain, Chumly. You never know what it may be up to.
You muffed this one:
neologist wrote:
Moses is generally thought to have written the first five books of the bible...
Chumly wrote:
Firstly we have the classic logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum concluding that a proposition is true simply because most people believe it.
That was not the substance of my claim. Someone had to have written the Pentateuch. If not Moses, if even a committee, someone had to compile it. So the OP still has merit.
neologist wrote:
This is how he described God's work in Genesis...
Chumly wrote:
Secondly we have the classic logical fallacy of argument from authority concluding that a proposition is true simply because a (supposed in this case) authority made the claim.
Guess again. Someone advanced the proposition. So the question of what went wrong still has merit.
Chumly wrote:
If you are going to go for your usual Christian apologetics route you'll need far more than a pithy helmet, so don't pith me off!
Your pith helmet has a dent, sir
 

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