1
   

Are Germany's laws on their Nazi legacy wrong?

 
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 08:40 pm
Craven,

Why are you being so insulting? I don't understand this. I am only stating the truth. More white people are insulted by the term nigger than black people are. Don't pretend you don't understand the term and why it came about.

You have no reason to insult my view at all. I think you are just being all too PC and not admitting truth to stereotypes, which is all I was discussing.

The younger generation does not see things as older adults do. My kids have been raised in a white world. They have friends that are black, which I don't even know color, until they show up on my doorstep.

There are two terms, one of which my son almost got expelled from school over. He was going to have lunch, with his black friend. He yelled, "Hey Nigga!!" His black friend yelled back, "Hey Crakka!!" Only the white person would get into trouble over this.

This was my son's good friend. They think adults, walking on eggshells, over race is nothing short of a joke. To them, this is nothing. Younger people really are colorblind. When we die off and the younger generation takes over, you will see the end of racism, completely.

The younger generation laughs at adults over racial issues we have, but they do not. We all know what a nigger means. We all know what a redneck means.

Why the insult Craven? I think that I made a very valid point about racial stereotypes, that most assume, until proven otherwise. Where am I so wrong and bigoted? I don't believe that I am, but apparently you do. Why? Please explain.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 09:57 pm
"The insult" you reference is calling what you posted a "brainfart".

As to the "why" it is because that was a spectacular brainfart. And it has nothing to do with "PC", I don't think it offensive so much as daft.

But like I said, this is an interesting discussion that I am reading and I don't wish to let said deposit hijack the topic.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 06:31 am
Wildflower63

Quote:
Jews do have a reputation for being unethical, in business. This is exactly why people do not like them.
Stereotypes came about for a reason, there is truth in it, like it or not.



That is a quote from one of your postings. I ignored it when I first saw it along your other comments. However brainfart is the least of what I would attribute to you.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 08:33 am
Sofia, freedom can be watched from many aspects.
I completely understand (being parent as well) you being worried about porn on Internet.
On the other hand, for average European (and not only average) is sign of extreme lack of freedom when all country goes upside-down, mothers are screaming in horror, etc - because of one tit shown on national TV.
I respect different views, but I am pretty sure that even strongest purists and moralists will not call one tit "a porn".

I am not saying that USA is not free country. Just that views on area of freedom are different.
Somebody said that American can stand in the corner on the street and yell "Nigger" all day if he/she wants. That surely is freedom of speech, whatever any of us think about that particular person.
However, American (and if we talk about civilized world probably only American) in some cases is not allowed to tell a JOKE if, let's say, joke is sexual (but JOKE) and he is employee saying that joke to his female secretary. For me that's also extreme violation of freedom.

Things for which Americans get sued are absolutely beyond imagination of average European. I'm sure they are beyond imagination of most Americans as well, but it's still happening.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 08:44 pm
You have a good point about sexual harrassment--and he silly stuff it seems to encompass.

That's a good example of freedoms butting into other freedoms.
-------
Wildflower-

I was severely grossed out about the statement you made about Jews, and 'act like niggers'... Just to enable you to see Craven wasn't the only one. The only way to describe those sentiments is bigoted, IMO. PC would be to decry your use of the word 'nigger'---but you have adopted negative stereotypical remarks, saying they are based on truth. And, 'nigger' is an intentional mispronouncement of the word Negro, meant to insult, or devalue. I don't know what definition you ascribe to 'nigger', or how you view one acting like one.

But, I think both slurs are gross, and I wish you'd rethink them.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 01:02 am
yeah, Sofia is right, I consider it common sense, but it's probably good thing to note that Craven and au1929 are not alone in their thinking.
Whatever makes you think that, it's still stereotype and prejudice.
And whatever you label as "acting like nigger" I am sure that plenty of people of all races are acting that way.
And plenty of people of all races are not.

As well as I think that probably at least 90% of the most sucessfull businessmen (or women, I'm not sure what term to use) were on some level unethical during their career.
0 Replies
 
drom et reve
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 05:30 am
I agree with Sofia. I'll keep this post unusually brief, and say that I disagree completely with your statement that stereotypes 'came about for a reason, there is truth in it.' There is no just reason in 'one size fits all' thinking.

----

0 Replies
 
Maggie5554515
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 06:45 am
Personally i don't find German law excessive in a way that it would wrongfully restrict the freedom of speech. The reason why these laws are actually passed is because everyone wants to prevent as far as possible consequences of populayrization of rassistic thoughts and ideas. I assume that it is rather difficult for an American to accept such laws as "fair" as most of the Americans are used to full freedom of speech etc. But as no version of Hitler in that rage has ever existed there, it's quite understandable.
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 02:09 am
I feel like I cannot express honesty about things that are common knowledge without being called a racist.

I am not racist, but can openly talk about stereotypes. I think people ignorant of these things must live in caves.

Why can't we talk about stereotypes without being insulted or insulting? We are adults and all know they exist. Can we openly talk about it without criticism???
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 02:11 am
Wildflower63 wrote:
I feel like I cannot express honesty about things that are common knowledge without being called a racist.


There are a lot of people who feel this way. David Duke is an example.

Quote:
I am not racist, but can openly talk about stereotypes. I think people ignorant of these things must live in caves.


This is funny, you deposit troglodyte politics into a thread that's not about it and naively invoke caves.

Quote:
Why can't we talk about stereotypes without being insulted or insulting?


Lots of people can. If you can't it may have to do with your backwards positions. Since you interpret distain for your position as insults you may want to limit yourself to less polemic brainfarts in order to satisfy your wishes.

Furthermore, if you are all about depositing bigotry and not worrying about offense you really shouldn't be whining about insults. That's very PC.

Quote:
We are adults and all know they exist.


Know what exist? Your stereotypes? Sure, some always do. Some of your made no sense but some have existed. But quit acting like you fancy meaningful discussion. You entered a very marginally related topic to hijack with trolling.

Quote:
Can we openly talk about it without criticism???


When you figure out how to say stupid things without getting any criticism in return let us all know. There are times that it would come in handy.

This is a thread about specific laws that you've hijacked to use to deposit ignorance. I have questions for you:

Can the legal discussion proceed, or must you hijack the thread with your troglodyte politics?

If posting your bigoted screed on the site is your fancy why not make your own thread?
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 02:35 am
What was the subject anyway? Ok, I will look it up. I am actually capable of serious though, believe it or not!!!

I guess that I should try better next time. I don't even remember what the original subject was or why I posted what I did. This topic has not had very much activity.

Fine, I will answer to the original topic, with serious thought, so no one accused me of brain farts. What on earth is that anyway??
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 02:43 am
Wildflower63 wrote:
What was the subject anyway?


It was whether Germany's laws in regard to the Nazi legacy are justified.

Not whether racial stereotypes are.

Quote:
Ok, I will look it up. I am actually capable of serious though, believe it or not!!!


I believe it. Really, I do.

Quote:
I don't even remember what the original subject was or why I posted what I did. This topic has not had very much activity.


It hasn't really had any topical activity since you posted. What you posted was one of those "show stoppers".

Quote:
Fine, I will answer to the original topic, with serious thought, so no one accused me of brain farts. What on earth is that anyway??


A mental lapse, a deposit of BS. Nearly everyone is subject to an occasional one. Those who are not, are not capable of serious thought.
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 03:12 am
Ok, I tried to post to the original topic, but how many of us are versed on law of our own country, much less laws of Japan or Germany? Germany was split after the war, with that big wall that went up, right? The communism portion was in shock of the fact that they were so far exceeded with the more free economy side of the wall.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what succeeded and what didn't. Communism was a good idea, but never gave any individual incentive to progress. Why should they? They had nothing to gain, which is so different than free enterprise idea. Who am I to agree or disagree with two completely different ideas of government in Germany? It is not for me to judge, but the people who have to live with it. It is completely their choice alone.

I do believe American's are very arrogant believing that they are so right, dictating to other countries and cultures. I cannot agree with this at all. I believe all people should have the right to choose for themselves, whether or not it is up to US standards, just as long as it is free choice and not government oppression

Am I correct or who lied to me about this? Japan, as I see it, can copy anything but creates nothing, because of their culture of group dominates individuality. The US does not see it that way. The US also rejected the idea of kamikaze, which I couldn't dream of spelling, pilots because the US people would never give a death sentence for any individual for a cause, but Japan did. Did they not, under government orders, raid Hawaii, under peace talks? They did do this at this cost of many lives to gain control of the Pacific.

Many older people refuse to buy a Japan made car because of a feeling of betrayal. I know that I got blasted from my dad for buying a Nissan! He was there. He remembers exactly what happened. My father in-law is older and went to the Pacific to fight Japan, very willingly, not drafted. He believed in a cause and refuses to buy Japan made cars or products also.

I wasn't there, during the war, but know many older men who were. I am an RN, so you can imagine the age group I deal with. They have more of a problem with Japan than they do Germany. There is reason for this. The people of US never accepted what Germany did during WWII. The people of US got suddenly forgiving of the crimes of Japan, buying their cars and accepting their ways, which elders cannot accept.

These older people fought Japan, not Germany, from what I see. They do feel justice was done to Germany, but not Japan, despite that lovely bomb being dropped on them. This issue of WWII had really never ended, as I see it. I didn't live it, but our elders went to war over this. Most were sent to fight Japan, not Germany.

Everyone recognizes Germany's crimes. What upsets elders is the fact that we so easily forgive Japan for attacking us, to gain control of the Pacific Ocean, and we don't care. We keep buying their cars. I did and got completely chewed by my father. He has valid reason why he feels this way, but I wasn't there. He was.

Should a grudge match go on forever? No, it wrong. Do I understand elders that fought this war and how they feel? Absolutely, I do and feel guilty, at times for buying a Nissan car. Times have changed, which elders don't often realize.

I feel everyone on this planet should be able to choose their own government, without oppression. I also feel Americans are very arrogant, pushing their views on other countries and cultures. Opinion is just that, nothing that dictates right and wrong. Who are we to judge or criticize what another country wishes for their government to be?

Is that good enough or should I try again? I will, if you want me to!!!
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 04:13 am
Wildflower63 wrote:

Ok, I tried to post to the original topic, but how many of us are versed on law of our own country, much less laws of Japan or Germany?


Some here are very well versed, and I'd been reading and learning.

Quote:

Is that good enough or should I try again? I will, if you want me to!!!


Um, I hope you don't feel obligated to or anything.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 08:23 am
Wildflower - if you read through the thread, you will find out a lot about German laws on the matter in question.
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 07:36 pm
It really isn't up to me to judge laws for any other country besides the one I live in, no matter how versed. I do often think Americans are very arrogant, making assumptions for what is right for a culture they no little about. Let the people of their own country decide, not us.

If people want to discuss differing laws, that is one thing, but I often do not get that impression. I feel that people are judgemental and push their values and ideas on another country, which I do not agree with at all.

At what point is my post going to be good enough??
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 08:45 pm
Wildflower63 wrote:

At what point is my post going to be good enough??


When you stop thinking it isn't.

So for simplicity's sake, it's now officially "good enough".
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2004 12:45 am
Thanks! I guess that I do feel my reply was good enough or I wouldn't have posted it. I don't feel anyone has the right to invade culture with beliefs, no matter how right, to anyone else. I strongly believe in freedom, as most Americans do.

I do feel that the US is financially successful and has an advantage of other countries because of this. I can't say our own government is not corrupt. It is! I cannot say, no matter whether or not that I am versed in any country's law, that I am in a position to make change.

I think this is a fantastic topic of discussion. I do not feel it is up to anyone to make laws for any other country with a very different culture, as long as they are humane and within human rights. That gets questionable! I do not agree with oppression of people of any country.

As long as those two conditions are met, according to the people of any foreign country, I can agree or disagree, only as discussion. I cannot cram my beliefs down their throats, but will do so to other Americans!! lol!!
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 06/12/2021 at 11:21:15