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Cesium clocks???

 
 
Reply Wed 6 May, 2015 09:01 pm

When they do the little experiment of flying cesium clocks around the world in opposite directions and checking times and note a sort of a microscopic difference of roughly -55 nanoseconds vs + 250 nanoseconds or whatever it is.....

Does it really make sense to think that time itself has been affected or would it make more sense to believe that a mechanical device (the clock) has been affected (by flying into the stratosphere and then traversing the world either with or against the Earth's own magnetic field or whatever the phenomena in question might be)???

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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 832 • Replies: 9
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gungasnake
 
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Reply Wed 6 May, 2015 09:02 pm
@layman

Any thoughts?
layman
 
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Reply Wed 6 May, 2015 09:38 pm
@gungasnake,
It make no sense to me whatsoever to say that "time itself" changes. The rate of the clock changes, that's all, and that's been amply demonstrated by the GPS, etc.

Same with "space" shrinking or expanding. It's senseless. We all know that material objects, like yardsticks, can change length with temperature changes, etc. If that happens, the results you get when you "measure" distances will change, but not the distance itself. The same football field can't "really" be 100 yards long, 50 yards long, 10 yards long, 1 inch long, etc., ad infinitum, just depending on who's looking at it and how fast they are going. The football field never changes one iota. "Space" doesn't just selectively change either.
gungasnake
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 01:38 am
@layman,
Thanks, that's more or less the way the thing appears to me...

Would somebody be correct in thinking that you view relativity and the entire idea of deformable time as a total bunch of BS, or is there anything in relativity which you like?
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 02:11 am
@gungasnake,
I think it's been well-demonstrated that clocks actually do slow down with increased speed, so I don't by any means think it's all just a bunch of crap. But, for reasons I have articulated elsewhere, I think Einstein's version of "special relativity" is ridiculous as a physical (as opposed to merely mathematical) theory. Relative motion can be, and is, well-explained by alternate theories of relative motion that do not require one to subscribe to solipsistic premises and logical absurdities. The math is consistent, but the way is which that math is said to correspond to "reality" is beyond dubious.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 03:59 am
@gungasnake,
Cesium decay isn't a "mechanical" process per se. It's an atomic process which can only happen at a certain rate which is exactly why it can be used for accurate time measurement.

Also it's not really "decay" which is used for time measurement, it is an oscillation of the nucleus related to its electrons. The main point being that it is a locked process by atomic physics so it is unaffected by external mechanical forces.
gungasnake
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 07:13 am
@rosborne979,
Aren't you asking us to believe that electricity and magnetism do not affect each other??
parados
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 08:05 am
@gungasnake,
I think he is demonstrating you don't know much about atomic oscillations.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 07:26 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
Aren't you asking us to believe that electricity and magnetism do not affect each other??

No. Electricity and Magnetism are two aspects of the same force, ElectroMagnetism (EM). And at higher energy levels EM merges with the Weak Nuclear force to form the ElectroWeak force (just in case you were interested).
layman
 
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Reply Thu 7 May, 2015 07:35 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
No. Electricity and Magnetism are two aspects of the same force, ElectroMagnetism (EM).


They got theyself a big-ass electromagnet down at Junior's Junkyard, and lemme tellya: You do NOT want to mess with that bad boy!

He will slap a hand on the hood of a 1977 Lincoln Continental and within seconds, seconds, I say, he will have that sucker 30 feet off the ground!
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