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Why c, revisited still again

 
 
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 01:41 pm
In relativity to me at least the crucial q is why all these effects presumably occur at speed c instead of some other velocity

Of course many will respond, "Measurements show it to be the case," which however doesn't really answer the q

http://able2know.org/topic/241797-1
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 1,394 • Replies: 13
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contrex
 
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Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 05:13 pm
Give it a rest, Dale!
chai2
 
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Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 05:17 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

In relativity to me at least the crucial q is why all these effects presumably occur at speed c instead of some other velocity

http://able2know.org/topic/241797-1


Because the velocity of narwhals is too variable.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 07:59 pm
@dalehileman,
The speed of light isn't really a speed. It's an asymptotic threshold to a relativistic energy curve.
chai2
 
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Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 08:57 pm
@rosborne979,
Narwhals have a hard time with that too.

They're really pretty useless, quantum wise.
rosborne979
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2014 05:45 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Narwhals have a hard time with that too.

They're really pretty useless, quantum wise.
Of course. Goes without saying Wink
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dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 19 Apr, 2014 10:59 am
@contrex,
Quote:
Give it a rest, Dale!
But Con why
Returning to the OP isn't the difference in approach evident
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dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:46 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
The speed of light isn't really a speed. It's an asymptotic threshold to a relativistic energy curve.
Okay Ros but the q remains as to why it occurs at this particular….uhhh….velocity
contrex
 
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Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:58 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
the q remains as to why it occurs at this particular….uhhh….velocity

The speed of electromagnetic radiation, including light, through any medium (including a vacuum) is determined by certain electromagnetic properties of that medium: the permittivity (capacitance per unit volume) and permeability to a magnetic field.
rosborne979
 
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Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:47 pm
@dalehileman,
It's not about velocity Dale, it's about the structure of space time.
dalehileman
 
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Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 11:39 am
@rosborne979,
Thanks fellas

Apparently it's not an arbitrary velocity as I had assumed
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
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Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 12:47 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
the permittivity (capacitance per unit volume) and permeability to a magnetic field.
I am wondering however, Con, whether either of these values might be set using the velocity of light c itself as a determinant
contrex
 
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Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 02:12 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
Quote:
the permittivity (capacitance per unit volume) and permeability to a magnetic field.
I am wondering however, Con, whether either of these values might be set using the velocity of light c itself as a determinant

They can be derived independently (this is the whole point!); They arose from the work of researchers into electricity and magnetism mainly in the 19th century.

In 1851 Hippolyte Fizeau developed a method to determine the speed of light based on time-of-flight measurements on Earth and reported a value of 315000 km/s. His method was later improved upon by Léon Foucault who obtained a value of 298000 km/s.

In 1856, Wilhelm Eduard Weber and Rudolf Kohlrausch measured the ratio of the electromagnetic and electrostatic units of charge, 1/√ε0μ0, by discharging a Leyden jar, and found that its numerical value was very close to the speed of light as measured directly by Fizeau.

In 1857 Gustav Kirchhoff calculated that an electric signal in a resistanceless wire travels along the wire at this speed.

In 1862 James Clerk Maxwell (one of the giants of science) showed that, according to the theory of electromagnetism he was working on, what he called 'electromagnetic waves' propagate in empty space at a speed equal to the Weber/Kohrausch ratio, and drawing attention to the numerical proximity of this value to the speed of light as measured by Fizeau, he proposed that light is in fact an electromagnetic wave. These were later verified to exist and put to practical use (radio, lasers, etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permittivity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_permeability




dalehileman
 
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Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 03:55 pm
@contrex,
Thanks Con, your response much appreciated by us Average Clods

So I wonder whether it might not even be possible to address the relativistic changes in a moving body using language suitable to the Intuition. Okay the math shows that a moving body appears to gain mass as it clock slows down etc, but why, how
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