Will Catholics be saved?

It is my understanding that strict interpretation of the Roman Catholic catechisms requires that one be baptized into the Church (meaning the RCC) in order to have salvation. In other words, one is saved by virtue of being in good standing with the Church. That is why excommuication is such a big deal.

On the Protestant side, you have many doctrines and interpretations. The more fundamental and many evangelical groups will say that one must accept Jesus Christ as their Lord of Savior in order to be saved and most Catholics never do that.

Then you have the outer fringe such as the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and some ultra fundamental groups who, if they take the teachings of their churches absolutely literally, will say nobody is going to heaven outside of their group. (I think there are special chambers just for these in heaven so they won't be upset by the crowds.)

The bottom line is, no matter what the church doctrine or teaching is, most of the rank and file memberships of that group have some doubts and probably most reject the idea of total exclusivity for their particular group.

I imagine we'll all be really surprised at who we'll meet in heaven, especially you guys who don't believe there is one.

There is no ritual under heaven in which anyone can be saved, we are not saved by our works, but we are judged by them. We are saved by grace and grace alone. Jesus was crucified for the salvation of all mankind, not just for the Catholics or the Christians. Does the grace of God only extend to those that have heard of Jesus?

Can a non-Christian person be saved? Jesus said it himself in the book of Mathew chapter 19…

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
He said to Him, "Which ones?"
Jesus said, ""You shall not murder,' "You shall not commit adultery,' "You shall not steal,' "You shall not bear false witness,' "Honor your father and your mother,' and, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Jesus died for all of us, even the non-believer. His blood that was shed was for our salvation, for all who live by the law of God that was written on everyone’s heart. Nowhere in Jesus’ reply said you must believe in God in order to go into heaven. If you live by the law, you will be judged by the law, and by Jesus’ sacrifice you will enter into heaven. By no other name on earth can you receive this grace, and by no other name under heaven can anyone be saved.

This is just horseshit, of course, because JBB did not suggest that those with whom she disagrees ought not be allowed to reproduce, which was the little piece of drab hatefulness you had spewed out, and to which i objected. Proving once again, that there is nothing about you which ought to lead anyone, least of all yourself, to hold you in awe.

Yoda I don't necessarily disagree with your take on it. But many Christians do. We Christians can be a pretty stubborn lot when it comes to doctrine. That's why I think so many of us are in for a big surprise when we cross to the other side.

Actually, the Catholic Church recognizes as valid, any baptism done with water and in the name of the Trinity, including those administered by heretics.

I wasn't aware of that Ye100man. Do you have anything referring me to that particular catechism?

The RCC is much more ecumenical now than it was before Vatican II. To the best of my knowledge there has been no major shift in doctrine from that expressed Vatican II.

Here's a pretty good discussion. Draw your own conclusions:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

Excellent and very thorough information Foxfyre. Thanks!

Re: Will Catholics be saved?


Listen, Jesus isn't real. Neither is Zeus, or Inanna, and Thutankhamen wasn't a god-pharoh. So, unles you're talking about saving at the supermarket, or being saved by, say, someone who knows the heimlich maneuver, I'd worry about your harmony on earth.

Even if the person known as Jesus really was a g-d, do you think he'd care about the wording of books left by people 200 years after him? "Yeah, you did your good deeds, didn't kill anybody out of greed - oh but look you didn't get dipped in water. I'm sorry, you'll just have to go to hell. Buh bye."

"The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation." - Catechism of the Catholic Church 1256

"Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church..." - Catechism of the Catholic Church 1271

A protestant who converts to Catholicism is not rebaptized. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who wish to convert to Catholicism, must be rebaptized since they do not use the same definition of "trinity" (1 being) and therefore were not baptized with the "required intention."

Various Criteria to attain Salvation Various Creeds and Bible passages base personal salvation on:
been baptized,
repenting of past sins,
trusting Jesus as their Lord and Savior,
doing good works,
following church rituals and sacraments, and/or
avoiding certain specific behaviors.

But there was no consensus as to the precise combination required. Some passages say that only good works are needed for a person to be saved; other passages seem to contradict this by stating that salvation depended only upon belief in Jesus is needed. Other verses require two or more combinations of belief or actions, often including baptism and/or repentance.

Jesus talked extensively about individuals being saved and inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. The main path to salvation that he described is based on good works and attitudes. Salvation is dependent on what people do and how they behave towards others - particularly the poor. Repentance, belief in Jesus or the act of baptism are irrelevant. Actions and attitudes only matter.

Matthew 25:31-46
Luke 10:25-27

Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works." (NKJ)

Mark 12:32-34: A man said that to love God and one's neighbor is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. Jesus replied in Verse 34 "...You are not far from the kingdom of God." This implies that if one loves God and humanity, then they are close to salvation.

Of course the gospel of John goes on to speak mostly about salvation based on "faith alone", but:

John 5:28-29: "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." This passage clearly states that: everyone who has died will be judged. This contradicts Verse 24 which implies that believers in Christ will not be judged.

A person's salvation will be determined only on the basis of the good and evil works that they performed during their lifetime.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/salvation.htm

I pray every day...... to be saved from jesus' followers.,..

I guess I am screwed either way because I am jewish. LOL

Well screwed or not, welcome to A2K clubernj. We "Jesus followers" will try not to be too scary even for shewolf.

The strange thing is clubernj - some of these Christian (non-Catholics) I have spoken to feel that Jewish people are saved, but Catholics are not. Some strange reasoning because Jesus was Jewish or to some effect like that. I guess you can change your philosophy to make it fit whatever feels right to you.

Well in some very strict fundamentalist teachings, the advocates will not attempt to rewrite the Bible enough to exclude the Jews. As the Christian Bible specifically indicates God's promises to the Jews, they figure God will take care of them. Christians who do not accept Christ 'by the book' however, and some might include Catholics in that group, will think such people professing Christianity are not really Christian and therefore are not saved. (It is these groups who generally think they'll be the only ones in heaven--I figure God will give them their own secluded quarters but probably no ice cream and cookies. )

The really hard core fundamentalists who take so narrow a view of salvation are in a tiny minority I think. The vast majority of Christians do not share their views.

What do you guys think is a better way to get to heaven?

1) Being a good person but not religious

2) Religious but not necessarily a compasionate person

I don't think it is for us to say clubernj. Some religions such is Islam do not include a great deal of compassion. Christianity in its simplest and most pure form cannot be practiced or believed without compassion. All other world religions fall in there somewhere.

And then there is the problem of the definition of "good". While the non-religious argue passionately that morality and religion are unrelated, many of the religious will argue as passionately that all knowledge of morality arises from religious beliefs and teachings.

Personally, I'm glad my personal belief allows me to leave it up to God to decide who goes to heaven.

Being a good person but not religious. Priests who molest boys are religious but they sure aren't good people.

Have no fears. The joke is on both faiths. The Jews were right.