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A Chinese or Japanese Machine?

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2004 10:54 pm
So, apparently my last post was a little boring. I thought I'd kick it up a notch with a niiice long problem.
Smullyan is good for these nice, complex riddles.


A certain computer scientist designed a remarkable series of machines that gave correct answers to any yes/no question put to them. The machines would answer by flashing a green light or a red light - one of the colors meant yes, the other no. The machines were manufactured in China and Japan, but unfortunately not manufactured uniformly, in that the machines made in one of these two countries mean yes by green and no by red, but the machines of the other country meant no by green and yes by red. To add to the confusion, it was not known whether it was the Chinese or the Japanese machines whose green meant yes.

1) Now, suppose you come into possession of one of these machines and wish to find out whether it was made in China or Japan. You are allowed to ask one yes/no question. What question do you ask?

2) Suppose that instead of wanting to know whether or machine is from China or Japan, you want to know whether it was chinese or the Japanese that meant yes by green. What single yes/no question could you ask the machine to determine this?

3) Suppose all you wanted to know about your machine is which of its two colors meant yes and which meant no. What yes/no question could accomplish this?

4) What yes/no question is such that the machine, regardless of whether it is Chinese or Japanese, is bound to answer by flashing red?

5) What yes/no question is such that the Chinese machines will have to answer by flashing red, and the Japanese machines by flashing green?

6) There is a yes/no question you could ask the machines that would make it impossible for it to answer with either red or green! what question would work?

7) There is a yes/no question that the machine whose green means yes could answer with either red or green, but the machines whose green means no couldn't answer no at all. What question would work?

Last one! 8 ) The first batch of machines made in these two countries are quite rare and are valuable collector's items. What yes/no question could you ask your machine to determine whether or not it is a collector's item.

Ok, so, I didn't spend 5 minutes of my life typing this so you could look it up online ( I don't know if it's available online or not) and answer all of them right away. Or, if you know the answers, don't answer all of them please, give some people some time. I'm sure someone will get it. Very Happy
I have the answers, so if you want to know early, I'll PM them to you and if for some reason, no one can get the answer to one of them, I'll post them later one.
Muchas Gracias! Very Happy
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,229 • Replies: 14
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pueo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2004 11:29 pm
i'd look for the "made in" label
0 Replies
 
pueo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2004 11:31 pm
more than likely it will be "made in taiwan" Very Happy
0 Replies
 
ScissorsRunWithYou
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2004 11:40 pm
lol not quite that simple. Razz
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 06:30 am
Ooh, this is a tough one!
I'll watch as people more clever than I give their guesses.
0 Replies
 
mithie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 12:42 pm
1. )

my question would be:

Would your answer be a green light if I asked you the question "Are you from China?"

A green light means the machine is chinese.

A red light means the machine is Japanese

Smullyan = awesome.

I've got 2.) figured out too but I ain't tellin.
0 Replies
 
magnum
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 02:01 pm
If that is your question it can give a red signal and still come from china
0 Replies
 
ScissorsRunWithYou
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 06:27 pm
magnum wrote:
If that is your question it can give a red signal and still come from china


s'right, either signal can mean that it's from China. The answer is slightly more complicated.
0 Replies
 
mithie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 05:58 am
ScissorsRunWithYou wrote:
magnum wrote:
If that is your question it can give a red signal and still come from china


s'right, either signal can mean that it's from China. The answer is slightly more complicated.


Hmm.. I'm not sure about this. I've double checked my logic.

Well, as far as I can see, there are two possibilities:
Either
Japan: China:
Red = Yes Red = no
Green = no Green = yes

In which case when asked to Japan my question, the answer would be yes, or RED, since the answer to "Are you from China" is "no" which would be a green light.

When I ask China my question, the answer would be yes, or GREEN, since the answer to "Are you from China" is "yes" which would be a GREEN light.

------------------------
Or the case could be:
Japan: China:
Red = no Red= yes
Green = yes Green = no

In which case, the same logic applies, RED if asked to the japanese machine and GREEN when asked ot the Chinese machine.

This is based on the assumption that both machines MUST be opposites of each other, as in, if the Japanese red meant no, the Chinese red must mean yes, which was the assumption I got when I read the problem.

If that were not the case, and a third and fourth case of

China: Japan:
Red = no Red = yes
Green = yes Green = no

and the reverse

Then, yes, my answer would not work.
0 Replies
 
ScissorsRunWithYou
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 06:14 am
Yes, it meant each machine meant a color meant opposite answers from each country. Green means Yes in chinese and No in japan or Green means no in China and yes in Japan.

Suppose:

Japan: Green= Yes
Red = No
China: Green = No
Red= Yes

You ask the Japanese machine "Are you from China?"
It will flash Red because Red means no
You ask the Chinese machine "Are you from China?"
It was also flash Red because Red means yes.

Suppose:

Japan: Green = No
Red = Yes
China: Green = Yes
Red = No
You ask the Japanese machine "Are you from China?"
It will flash Green because green means no
You ask the Chinese machine "Are you from China?"
It will flash Green because Green means yes.

I see a 50/50 chance. Or am I reading it incorrectly?
0 Replies
 
mithie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 07:31 am
ah! I think you misunderstood my answer!

My answer was:

"Would your answer be a green light if I asked you the question 'Are you from China?' "

So I'm not asking the machine if HE is from china, but if his answer shows up as a green light if I had asked him that question.
0 Replies
 
ScissorsRunWithYou
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 11:49 am
Oh! Well, haha that's perfectly the right answer! Sorry about that. Mad
Not the (exact) same answer as I've hear, but works just the same. Smile
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:19 pm
Aha! Smile
0 Replies
 
mithie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:39 pm
I've got all except #6 and #8 hehe

I'm at work right now with Autocad open while furiously scribbling notes on the back of a scrap paper doing these logic puzzles and my boss pats me on the back and says to me "You know, most summer interns just browse the web all day long. I'm glad you got siphoned into my department!"

I was like "Thanks."

Smile
0 Replies
 
ScissorsRunWithYou
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 02:45 am
Well, by all means, answer some of the other questions. Smile

Other than 3, I thought 6 was the easiest for me. Razz Not to get you down. It took me a few hours to get the other ones. Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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