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Mon 21 Jun, 2004 01:40 am
Do the women in your country have the same rights as men?
I'd be interested to hear from all sides.
Joe Nation
(U.S.)
I'm not sure if I'm going off topic, but I wanted to mention something that my oldest sister told me. She's a third-year med student right now, and she said that she frequently helps out during surgeries to gain experience as part of her education. However, when she does something slightly incorrectly or does it too slowly for the doctor's taste (whenever male), he screams at her and the other female students saying, "DO IT FASTER!!! DO IT RIGHT!!!" But when a male student messes up and sometimes even more than the females, the doctor says, "Oh, that's okay. It happens a lot. Just be careful next time." And she also said that generally, female doctors are paid less than male doctors. I guess in the U.S., it has equal rights, but it's just the general view of the majority of the male population that messes everything up.
My country is the U.S. of A. I haven't worked at home in over 12 years, so I don't have any current knowledge to talk about, but when I was working women engineers were treated equally with male engineers, as close as I could tell.
Our daughter begins college this fall. I certainly hope she is treated equally in both her studies and future employment, and is given every chance to either succeed or fail, based on her own merits and actions. (yeah, I know that might sound cruel. But do you really want to drive over a bridge designed by an engineer who should have failed, but didn't?)
For the past 12 years I've worked here in Saudi Arabia. I'm told there are a few Saudi woman engineers working down at Dhahran, but I've never met one.
I think that women are doing better in the US than in the past, but it wasn't so long ago that there were great inequities. Forty years ago:
Jobs were listed in newspapers as, Help Wanted-Male, or Help Wanted-Female. The vast majority of female jobs were either clerical or secretarial.
Educated women became teachers or social workers.
A very small percentage became doctors, but those were in the vast minority. There were very few females in law, and in the scientific and technological areas. A popular job for college educated women in New York when I was young was a buyer for a department store.
It was a standing joke, when I went to college, that the girls were going for their MRS. degree. The implication was, that the brighter guys were in the colleges, and that was where we could meet them. Most women did not expect to work after the birth of their first child.
There were certain fields that were practically closed to women. I know of one gal who wanted to be a veteranarian, and work with household pets. Her application was denied..............she would not be strong enough to move a horse or a cow. I knew a woman who got into a Ph.D program in industrial psychology in the early 1980s. She was thrilled.......She was one of the first women to get into that program.
Until sometime in the 1970's, I believe, a woman's salary could not be counted if she and her husband wanted to obtain a mortgage on a house, if she were of childbearing age.
There were restaurants that were "men only".
If a woman was physically abused by her husband, in most cases, the police would not intervene. It was considered a "private" matter.
If a woman were raped, her own sexual history was brought out for scrutiny.
There are many, many other examples of the inequality that women have faced in the United States. The reason that I brought this up, is because many Americans tend to look askance at other cultures, because of the perception of how women are treated. Although women in the US never had to bear some of the gross indignities that are rife in other countries, it was not so long ago that we, in the US, had cultural norms that would be considered backward, by today's standards.
au1929- Why are you embarrassed? Do you find it threatening that women have shown that they can achieve as well, or better, than men?
Wow.. that is interesting information Phoenix.. I NEVER knew that women were treated so badly so reciently. in my little world it seems that all the atrocities that happened to women were before 1940 or so.
how sad. And yet... how strange.. as americans we DO look at everyone else and judge every other culture instead of spending that energy on our own country. >sigh<
Another sex-defeating behavior.. woman as president? wont happen. I would bet money that we wont see a female candidate that will be allowed on TV let alone make headlines with her campaign for another 10-15 years. Yet.. as americans we claim to allow equal rights and no descrimination based on sex , race, etc.
( I need to move. hehe )
Though I will say that we do have quite a few bonus points. We do NOT get casterated as young females do in africa, we do NOT get acid dropped on us as they do in the middle east, we are NOT limited to one child as they are in asia .
america isnt ALL bad i guess. hehe
shewolfnm- There is no doubt that there is still bias in many areas. I still think thought, that conditions for women in the US is as good or better than any other place on earth!
Phoenix32890
You never fail. That was just exactly the reaction I expected.
Phoenix32890 wrote:I still think thought, that conditions for women in the US is as good or better than any other place on earth!
Could you tell some of those, which made the situation in the USA better than in any other places on earth?
And how you gained these conditions?
Well , in the US you can legally bit*h about anything and not get in trouble. :-)
That may be why things are different here then in most other places. heheheh
Walter
I believe It was swept along as part of the civil rights movement.
Hmm - interestingly, the USA never ratified the "International Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women" ..... since signing it in 1980.
Yes, Phoenix, I know what you mean.
I remember the uproar, when women got the right to choose their name after marriages here - and all the 'male-orientated' [why still orientated, btw, and not 'occientated'?] arguments against that. :wink:
Secretaries, nurses, fashion models, TV show moderators, yellow press reporters, PR people, waitresses, teachers, and 'home generals' are female-dominated around here.
Miners, metal workers, construction workers, farmers, foresters, computer engineers, politicians and presidents are male dominated over here.
That does not concern rights, however. Anyone has the right to dig threnches, but only some desire to do so.
Relative.
Sententia wrote:(U.S.)
I'm not sure if I'm going off topic, but I wanted to mention something that my oldest sister told me. She's a third-year med student right now, and she said that she frequently helps out during surgeries to gain experience as part of her education. However, when she does something slightly incorrectly or does it too slowly for the doctor's taste (whenever male), he screams at her and the other female students saying, "DO IT FASTER!!! DO IT RIGHT!!!" But when a male student messes up and sometimes even more than the females, the doctor says, "Oh, that's okay. It happens a lot. Just be careful next time." And she also said that generally, female doctors are paid less than male doctors. I guess in the U.S., it has equal rights, but it's just the general view of the majority of the male population that messes everything up.
As a professor, I've always felt that women students were discriminated against, especially in the fields of medicine and law.
As far as women MDs making less than male MDs, where are the stats on this observation. If the female MD has her own practice, she could adjust her salary accordingly.
As far as medical students are concerned, on the clinical rotations, I think that the men have somewhat more confidence than the women. They also seem to be making more mistakes!
Jim wrote:My country is the U.S. of A. I haven't worked at home in over 12 years, so I don't have any current knowledge to talk about, but when I was working women engineers were treated equally with male engineers, as close as I could tell.
Our daughter begins college this fall. I certainly hope she is treated equally in both her studies and future employment, and is given every chance to either succeed or fail, based on her own merits and actions. (yeah, I know that might sound cruel. But do you really want to drive over a bridge designed by an engineer who should have failed, but didn't?)
For the past 12 years I've worked here in Saudi Arabia. I'm told there are a few Saudi woman engineers working down at Dhahran, but I've never met one.
It may surprise American women, to find out that there are many Moslem women MDs and lawyers. And these women are dam good at what they do.
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