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Would the World be Better off Without Religion?

Forums: Religion, Spirituality And Religion, Philosophy, Lack Of Religion, Lack Of Belief
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Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:52 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Therefore it does not cause people to worry about having to explain their behavior to God when they die.
Actually, when you're dead, you're dead. No roasting toasting, boiling or broiling.
So, no 'splaining, neither. - Ecclesiastes 9:6


I was only trying to humor him in his hypothetical so show the hypothetical doesn't make any sense. An all knowing god wouldn't be asking you any questions at all. It doesn't make any sense as to why it would even open it's mouth to speak. It would already know.

But the bible is not even consistent on this trait. Even in Genesis it points out this fact. God asks where Adam and Eve are hiding and asks them why they are hiding. If it was an all knowing god, why would it need to ask, it would know exactly where they are and why they are doing it.

In fact you can take it to another level. If the Adam and Eve story is true and god is all knowing, he would have known even before creating them that they would eventually disobey him. That they disregard his commandment. Yet he carried out creating them and telling them not to partake of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge. All these events contradict an all knowing god.

The only rational conclusion you can come to is that either god is NOT all knowing, or purposely wanted things to turn out how they did. He makes commandments knowing all to well that they will be broken. He creates the world knowing that he will have to destroy it. None of it makes any sense unless you realize that all these stories were just made up by people who didn't realize they were creating a narrative that was inconsistent. Just like in hollywood movies.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:56 am
Krumple...you claim atheism is not an ideology.

I claim with some people...especially people like you...it most assuredly is an ideology.

Why are you avoiding responding to that?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:57 am
@Ionus,
Nobody knows for sure of course but Maimonides was one of the smartest and scientifically inclined mind ever to study the matter, so I trust his judgement. Makes a lot of sense too.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Even if that were true (which it most assuredly is not) how would that possibly make what I am saying inconsistent.

Deal just with what I am saying about this specific.


I am not talking about just the specifics. So why would I address them with the same argument?

Frank Apisa wrote:

How do you KNOW that? The same way you KNOW there are no gods?


I have already explained this multiple times. If you actually held to this notion then any absurd thing would have to follow that same line of reasoning but you obviously don't.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Deal with the statement as it is...rather than suggest that if I change it...it will make no sense.


It is necessary to point out the lack of consistency in the line of reasoning. I am saying you are telling me that you don't know but your brain has already said that you know there isn't. By pointing out your inconsistency by changing the word god to anything else, should reveal to you that your brain is in agreement with my argument.

Change the word god to gremlins, flying pink elephants or the bogyman. You will see what I mean.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:57 am
Krumple...

...you claim you KNOW there are no gods.

I claim you cannot KNOW there are no gods...it is just a guess or belief on your part.

Why are you not responding to that?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 11:59 am
@Krumple,
You are the most illogical poster I've dealt with in a very long time, Krumple.

You claim you KNOW there are no gods.

Tell us how you KNOW there are no gods.

Or man up enough to simply acknowledge you do not know it...that you simply are guessing it...or believing it.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Krumple...

...you claim you KNOW there are no gods.

I claim you cannot KNOW there are no gods...it is just a guess or belief on your part.

Why are you not responding to that?


I have already answered it multiple times. I have explained it already. Oh I see, you are in a constant state of "I don't know." so even when I explain it, you still don't know.

I get it now. You don't know anything.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:03 pm
Krumple wrote:


Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

Deal with the statement as it is...rather than suggest that if I change it...it will make no sense.


It is necessary to point out the lack of consistency in the line of reasoning. I am saying you are telling me that you don't know but your brain has already said that you know there isn't. By pointing out your inconsistency by changing the word god to anything else, should reveal to you that your brain is in agreement with my argument.

Change the word god to gremlins, flying pink elephants or the bogyman. You will see what I mean.


So, Krumple...if I said, "I do not know if there are any living beings on any planet circling any of the 5 nearest stars to Sol"...

...you would say, "Well change that "any planet circling any of the 5 nearest stars" to "Earth"...

...and you will see how silly it is???????

Wake up!

Deal with what I actually wrote...rather than asking me to change it so you can say it makes no sense.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:05 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Krumple...

...you claim you KNOW there are no gods.

I claim you cannot KNOW there are no gods...it is just a guess or belief on your part.

Why are you not responding to that?


I have already answered it multiple times. I have explained it already. Oh I see, you are in a constant state of "I don't know." so even when I explain it, you still don't know.

I get it now. You don't know anything.


I have never said I do not know anything.

I have said that I do not know if there are any gods or not.

Why not deal with that...rather than trying this evasion?

You can deal with it easily enough...by simply explaining how YOU KNOW there are no gods.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Krumple wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Krumple...

...you claim you KNOW there are no gods.

I claim you cannot KNOW there are no gods...it is just a guess or belief on your part.

Why are you not responding to that?


I have already answered it multiple times. I have explained it already. Oh I see, you are in a constant state of "I don't know." so even when I explain it, you still don't know.

I get it now. You don't know anything.


I have never said I do not know anything.

I have said that I do not know if there are any gods or not.

Why not deal with that...rather than trying this evasion?

You can deal with it easily enough...by simply explaining how YOU KNOW there are no gods.


Even when it is explained, you still don't know frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:14 pm
@Krumple,
As I said, you have painted yourself into a corner on this matter...and now are just evading rather than discussing.

I don't blame you. You cannot discuss it, because it is obvious you cannot KNOW there are no gods.

So...keep on evading...and I'll keep on calling it to your attention.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

As I said, you have painted yourself into a corner on this matter...and now are just evading rather than discussing.

I don't blame you. You cannot discuss it, because it is obvious you cannot KNOW there are no gods.

So...keep on evading...and I'll keep on calling it to your attention.


I realize you are on this constant state of repeat because the state of not knowing doesn't allow you to get any where. You don't even know this conversation is even happening. It's like a person with Alzheimers.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 12:29 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

As I said, you have painted yourself into a corner on this matter...and now are just evading rather than discussing.

I don't blame you. You cannot discuss it, because it is obvious you cannot KNOW there are no gods.

So...keep on evading...and I'll keep on calling it to your attention.


I realize you are on this constant state of repeat because the state of not knowing doesn't allow you to get any where. You don't even know this conversation is even happening. It's like a person with Alzheimers.


Another attempt to evade...this time by trying to trivialize and insult.

No problem.

At this point we are no longer really talking about whether or not you KNOW there are no gods (you cannot know that!)...

...but whether or not you have the ethical wherewithal to simply acknowledge that you do not know.

Want to comment on that?
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 07:12 pm
@rosborne979,
Many years ago I did read the bible extensively. I believe it was probably around the late 1980s for about a 7 month period. At that time I was reading the bible the same way a student would read a school textbook. I had other reference and study materials as well. Being that was such a long time ago, I forgot much of what I had learned in the literal teachings. It is true that I cannot remember much of the literal lessons I learned from years ago. But, I do remember much of the overall themes and general lessons of the bible. The bible is made up of many books. There is a group of books contained in the Old testament. The second group of books are contained in the New testament. When I was studying the bible I only read a few of the books in the old testaments as well as a few in the new testament. Most of the books in the old and new testament I have never read. I have discovered that the bible has many different interpretations by different religions, different churches, and different individuals. When I read the bible I try to let the bible interpret itself. Sometimes successfully and sometimes not successfully. Examples would be metaphors and symbols contained in any particular verse would often have it's real meaning define in other parts of the bible. The trick is you would have to know where to look. You would need a lot of reference tutorial materials to jump all around the bible back and forth to find the real meaning of many of the symbols and metaphors. I am definitely not an expert. It's hard tedious and very time consuming. The parts that I was able to interpret I believe I understand it's true meaning. I tried to answer your question the best way I know how. I just can't see a way I could answer that question with a simple yes or no.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 07:42 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
I don't do drugs.
I don't steal.
I don't kill people.
I try not to lie.

Under modern interpretations of theology, you are probably going to heaven . incidentally, much of the modern discussion points such as you raise have been around since the birth of religion, probably shortly after the birth of agriculture . Early Christianity rejected most of the OT but it was brought back by fundamentalists after the Medieval church slid backwards .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 07:45 pm
@Olivier5,
He is certainly an excellent ref but I go with modern scholarship that has many sources unavailable to him .
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 09:24 pm
@FBM,
I like having cordial discussions on various topics. You seem like a good person. I don't mind answering questions. I don't feel like I am being attacked. You are simply asking questions.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 09:28 pm
@Real Music,
Thank you. I do appreciate that.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2015 10:49 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

He is certainly an excellent ref but I go with modern scholarship that has many sources unavailable to him .

So, what does modern scholarship have to say about kashrut in regard to the lobster?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2015 12:53 am
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
So, what does modern scholarship have to say about kashrut in regard to the lobster?
Already answered in general, but if you have a more specific question ?

http://able2know.org/topic/267762-18#post-5980519
 

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