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Reasons to reject a 2-state solution in Israel

 
 
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2015 04:24 am
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/list/18-reasons-you-should-stand-against-the-two-state-solution/
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 716 • Replies: 18
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oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 04:59 am

The problem is, if we aren't going to have a two-state solution, we'll need to expel the Palestinians from the region.

Finding someplace to put them (and putting up with the inevitable Leftist whining when they are being transported to their new home) will take some doing.


Anyway, as two-state solutions go, the one currently being pursued by the Palestinians and Europe is about the best that Israel could hope for. The fact that the Palestinian state is being created outside the negotiation process means that Israel will not have to give up any land, and will instead retain full military control over all of Area C. The new Palestinian state will be composed only of isolated Bantustans.
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 10:43 am
@oralloy,
Sooner or later, Israel has to have both the West Bank and Gaza for its own purposes. If they can't find a place to put the palisavages in the gigantic swath of territory known as the slammite world, they could put them on one of our own Pacific island possessions. Rendova would be one possibility, only two small settled areas which they could wall off with some sort of an electrified fence to protect those people from the palisavages...
imawonderingwhy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 10:55 am
@gungasnake,
Gung: "they could put them on one of our own Pacific island possessions. Rendova would be one possibility, only two small settled areas which they could wall off with some sort of an electrified fence to protect those people ..."

Isn't this ironic, people from the world's top country of war criminals and terrorists talking about committing, AGAIN, genocide.

It's a good thing that there still are some moral people in this sad world.

===============

I Was “Part of a Terror Organization,” Says Israeli Pilot Turned Activist

...

Yonatan Shapira was born on an Israeli military base the year before his father flew fighter jets in the October War of 1973. Thirty years later, twelve of them spent as an air force pilot himself, Shapira rejected the military. In 2003, he wrote a letter, pledging not to fly over the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Shapira is among the few Israelis to have declared support for the Palestinian-led call for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel. He has also been attacked by the Israeli military for attempting to sail towards and break the siege of Gaza.

He recently spoke to The Electronic Intifada contributor Ryan Rodrick Beiler.

Ryan Rodrick Beiler: What was it like growing up in a military family?

Yonatan Shapira: The education I got was very much about peace, equality, freedom and a lot of socialist values — caring about the other, caring about the poor — but at the same time with a big wall of negligence of Palestine. The same time I was in class learning these beautiful values, the Israeli army was engaged in occupation, land grabs, settlements, massacres, deportation of Palestinian activists.

But I didn’t know these things. I truly believed that I should defend my country. I wanted to be like my father. I wanted to be a pilot in the air force and it was my dream come true when I was accepted. I became a helicopter pilot and flew rescue missions and commando transport.

RRB: When did you begin to question the military’s actions?

YS: I realized something was rotten when the Israeli government started what was called the “assassination policy” in 2001-2003. Palestinian resistance failed to bring liberation and more extreme attitudes took place, such as suicide bombings and other [forms of] armed struggle. The government thought to assassinate everyone that has to do with armed resistance.

Pilots would be sent with missiles to shoot the car of this person. In the beginning, this car could be driving outside of town where just the car was hit. Later they would allow shooting suspects when they are closer to the city. Eventually the assassination would be even if he’s in the middle of the market, or in his house at night with all of the family around.

In July 2002, Salah Shehadeh, head of the armed branch of Hamas in Gaza, was bombed in the middle of the night with an F-16 dropping a one-ton bomb on his house where he was sleeping with his children and his wife. The bomb killed fifteen people, most of them children, and about 150 were injured. If I needed some answer for my questions and doubts, that was clear: this is a terror attack. And I’m part of a terror organization.

The commander of the air force said that everything was done perfectly, and the pilots should sleep well at night. That was an additional thing that helped us: when someone says you can sleep well at night, maybe it’s time to wake up and start to think. For me and several friends, that was the moment we decided to do something.

RRB: When you and 26 others published “The Pilots’ Letter” condemning Israel’s attacks on civilians, how did going public change you?

YS: It was like a birth for us. We ended one chapter in our lives and became, in our view, peace activists, human rights activists, freedom activists. In the eyes of many in our society we became traitors.

We were not the first Israeli soldiers to act upon their belief. In 1982 there were many who refused to participate in the war in Lebanon and were sent to jail. Another group in 2002 were willing to go to jail instead of doing reserve duty in the West Bank and Gaza.

More recently, 43 soldiers from the elite intelligence unit called 8200 declared they are not willing to participate in these criminal actions. We have high school seniors who decide they cannot join the Israeli army because it’s engaged in terrorism against civilians. We now have some people in jail, spending usually between half a year and a year.

It takes a lot of courage to do something like that when you’re eighteen years old. I didn’t have this courage. I didn’t have this information. I didn’t have this realization. It took me twelve years in the air force to realize I’m not fighting for the right side.

RRB: If you were not fighting for the right side, as you say, how did you change that?

YS: It’s not enough just to not be part of something you believe is wrong. Now you have to make another step and become part of the solution.

We thought the next step would be to meet with Palestinian ex-fighters and to find common ground. In 2005-2006 we started an organization called Combatants for Peace. It was one of the most significant experiments I ever had in my life. To step into a room with people who before you were fearing to death — they were supposed to kill you and you were supposed to kill them. Suddenly you sit in a room and you talk about your story and about your family and friends. When you leave this room you are a different person. The “we” and “them” that you had before cannot exist anymore. We realized that we are actually much more similar than different.

It was a very important thing for us, for the Palestinians and for the Israelis. But later, nevertheless, I realized that the framework was problematic because it’s not a conflict of equal parties. It’s not that you have two countries fighting each other. It’s a colonial struggle — colonizer and colonized. So there is a conceptual problem when you come to create something that is based on equal power balance, which it’s totally not.

...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/i-was-part-of-a-terror-organization-says-israeli-pilot-turned-activist/5430763
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2015 11:20 am
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
Isn't this ironic, people from the world's top country of war criminals and terrorists talking about committing, AGAIN, genocide.

The US may commit an occasional war crime, but we're hardly the top.

Terrorism involves the targeting of civilians. The US does not do that.

Genocide involves an attempt to extinguish a race or culture. No one is talking about doing that.


imawonderingwhy wrote:
I Was “Part of a Terror Organization,” Says Israeli Pilot Turned Activist

Self-hating Jews sure do whine loudly.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Feb, 2015 06:28 am
@imawonderingwhy,
One thing you could do with the palisavages... The slammite world still has slavery and presumably slave ships: you could send their asses to Rendova on slave ships...
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Feb, 2015 06:36 am
Actually, if you look for islands which are totally uninhabited, i.e. where you could put the palisavages without any sort of danger to normal, decent people at all, you do find a couple of possibilities North of Bougainville, Han Island and Namotu.
0 Replies
 
imawonderingwhy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:10 am
@oralloy,
Your incredibly simplistic reply illustrates either a profound level of ignorance or a profound level of dishonesty or both.
imawonderingwhy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:13 am
@gungasnake,
Have you been able to participate in the numerous war crimes and terrorist actions the US has committed just in the last half century? You certainly have the mindset.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:17 am
surely one state of Isreal is enough for any planet
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:31 am
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
Your incredibly simplistic reply illustrates either a profound level of ignorance or a profound level of dishonesty or both.

I notice your catastrophic failure to challenge any of my facts.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:31 am
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
Have you been able to participate in the numerous war crimes and terrorist actions the US has committed just in the last half century? You certainly have the mindset.

The US may have committed an occasional war crime, but hardly numerous amounts of them.

Terrorism involves targeting civilians. We haven't done that in the past hundred years.
0 Replies
 
imawonderingwhy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:36 am
@oralloy,
You've now made it crystal clear - you possess both a profound ignorance and a profound dishonesty.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:38 am
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
You've now made it crystal clear - you possess both a profound ignorance and a profound dishonesty.

Your catastrophic failure to challenge even one of my facts, continues.
imawonderingwhy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:51 am
@oralloy,
You are obviously in need of a dictionary because you have an exceedingly poor grasp of what constitutes 'facts'.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:54 am
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
You are obviously in need of a dictionary because you have an exceedingly poor grasp of what constitutes 'facts'.

Says the clown who can't manage to challenge even one of those facts.
imawonderingwhy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 12:00 pm
@oralloy,
Please, by all means, point out your "facts", but realize that by doing so you will establish that you are both profoundly ignorant and profoundly dishonest.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 12:16 pm
"imawondringwhy(TM)" just added to ignore list.....
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 05:17 pm
@imawonderingwhy,
imawonderingwhy wrote:
Please, by all means, point out your "facts",

Most people are capable of scrolling up to previous posts.


imawonderingwhy wrote:
but realize that by doing so you will establish that you are both profoundly ignorant and profoundly dishonest.

Says the clown who can't seem to manage a single challenge to any of my facts.
0 Replies
 
 

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