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Red/Black Marbles

 
 
rich311
 
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2004 04:15 pm
Whim was so nice to solve one I was stumped on, so hopefully I can give a little back Very Happy

You have three bags with an unspecified number of marbles in each bag. One bag is full of red marbles, one bag is full of black marbles, and one bag has an undetermined mixture of both red and black marbles. The bags have labels (red, black, red/black) on them, but you know the labels are wrong. What is the minimum numbers of marble "pulls" you will have to take to correctly label the bags?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,138 • Replies: 10
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hail
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2004 05:23 pm
4?????
0 Replies
 
squizzza
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2004 11:09 pm
To my calculations:
The lowest number is 4, that is if ou pull out a red and black out of the red/black bag. But it is impossible to get a correct number. Because you could pull out the same colour marble over and over again untill you run out of that colour.
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pedronunezmd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2004 06:09 am
The lowest number is 1.

Pull one marble out of the bag labeled "black and red", whichever color you pull out, you know all the marbles in that bag are that color. It can't be a mixture because the bag was labeled incorrectly.

Suppose the original marble you pulled out was black. Now you also know that the bag labeled "black" must actually contain "red" and the bag labeled "red" must actually contain "black and red".

If the bag labeled "black" contained black and red marbles, that would have left the third bag, labeled "red" containing only red marbles, which would have contradicted the statement that all bags are incorrectly labeled.
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SealPoet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2004 07:44 am
What ped' said.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2004 09:34 am
If that is the answer, then this riddle is flawed. Because it was never specified that all of the bags were labelled incrorrectly, only that "the label's were incorrect." If one of the labels were correct, and the other two were incorrect, it would still be a true statement that "the label's were incorrect" because you only need to find one contradiction to make the statement false.
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pedronunezmd
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2004 03:38 pm
Quote:
The bags have labels (red, black, red/black) on them, but you know the labels are wrong.

I don't see any problem with the wording of the riddle. It says the labels are wrong. To most standard english speakers, that sentence would be interpreted as "all the labels are wrong".

If I told you "I ate 3 pretzels, and the pretzels were stale", most people would know that I meant all 3 pretzels I ate were stale.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2004 04:26 pm
Assuming the riddle has a solution, ped's interpretation must stand otherwise no "information" can be extracted without potentially drawing ALL the marbles.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2004 11:35 am
Quote:
I don't see any problem with the wording of the riddle. It says the labels are wrong. To most standard english speakers, that sentence would be interpreted as "all the labels are wrong".

If I told you "I ate 3 pretzels, and the pretzels were stale", most people would know that I meant all 3 pretzels I ate were stale.


well...I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, it's discrete math, which can be thought of as the math of language, and there's no room for interpretation.
0 Replies
 
rich311
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2004 01:16 pm
good job pedro!
yes, the answer is 1, just as pedronunezmd said.

apologies to stuh for the missing "all".
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2004 11:40 am
sorry for making such a fuss...I'm a bit technical.
0 Replies
 
 

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