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Foie gras, pros and cons and in between

 
 
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 08:18 pm
I have seen many articles that have made me entirely against it, and two that give me a new view, one I have a link for, primarily positing that it isn't all that unnatural for the birds, if done wisely. The first article was from years ago, no link, my lady.

Hawkeye started a rant thread about it's outlawing in California, and removal of such - and the thread is too ugly for me to want to continue.
http://able2know.org/topic/264326-1

Here's the link that makes me ok with some of the process, done well - at least if we eat animals at all. Read before you yell at me.

The Physiology of Foie: Why Foie Gras is Not Unethical
Dec 16, 2010 7:00AM
J. Kenji López-Alt

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/the-physiology-of-foie-why-foie-gras-is-not-u.html


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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 2,647 • Replies: 30
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 08:29 pm
If it is like that Mondo Cane scene, I am against it.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 08:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
I slightly remember Mondo Cane.
The you tubes may be all that.

That is not what is going on in the link I gave.

The link isn't obnoxious.

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 08:44 pm
@ossobuco,
I've read about this farm before. I think they're ok.

Not sure I'd know how to be sure I got American-sourced foie gras, or if I even want to. I like duck - had a fabulous duck breast the other day. I like liver, particularly chicken liver. I don't think I need to find special duck liver to make my life complete (and I'm pretty sure I can't afford it).

But ... if I had to have foie gras, I'd want to be sure it came from one of the New York state farms that I know about.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:00 pm
@ehBeth,
I've tasted it, a slip on the end of a fork. I don't remember one slurp from forty years ago.

The link is interesting, not least, for pointing out how much many animal lives are timed shorter and less well than these particular ducks. But that wasn't key, it was about it not being a kind of torture, in that situation.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:18 pm
@ossobuco,
Growing up, we had friends who had a specialty poultry farm.

We always got the best chicken, ducks, turkeys, geese, eggs, quail ...

I was definitely spoiled by the taste of the birds/eggs we got from Heinz and Maria. When possible, I still prefer to get poultry/meat products from farms I know. It's one of the definite upsides to the good farmers' markets around us - and access to Cav's favourite butcher shop.

The duck breast I had - came from a farm I've known for over 30 years.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:24 pm
@ehBeth,
Some farms feed foies gras producers twice a day and some once a day because it is cheaper ever thought that it over fills stomachs.

I would pay a premium for those who do Two a day. I want to promote responsible farming practices.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:25 pm
@ossobuco,
Well, I have to admit that after reading the story at the link and watching the Youtube, I have changed my opinion somewhat. I didn't see anything there that was nearly as cruel as I'd imagined. I wonder if there are farms that are actually as cruel as I'd imagined and, if so, what percentage of the whole they comprise.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:40 pm
@FBM,
I don't have any idea. Other folks will, and may be be right re those places, which I figure none of us want, horrible.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:48 pm
@FBM,
Likewise america usually slaughters over a half million head a week, and we are in a shortage....the activists post a video of three sick cows being killed and ground up into ground beef and the stupid americans who have no ability to evaluate jump to the conclusion that cows are usually abused by the farmers. What? Over 71,000 a day go through the process, 3 in a year or so were handled not correctly, and we figure they all are??
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:49 pm
@FBM,
From my other reading on this, most do not use the same good practices.

It's why I would want to know exactly where foie gras came from - if I ever went that way.

I guess I'm turning into my dad and uncle - sniffing butter to figure out what the cows had been fed Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
and that's why a smart consumer wants to know where their food comes from if at all possible

I'd rather skip quite a few food items if I can't pinpoint the source.

Several of the major grocers here have programs where they put photos/names of the farmers on different meat products - you can look them up, check out their practices to some degree.

i.e. when I look this product up, I have to i.d. my general location so they can provide the right farm family pic

http://www.loblaws.ca/content/dam/lclonline/images/products/2320457.jpg.thumb.420.420.margin.png


FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 09:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Likewise america usually slaughters over a half million head a week, and we are in a shortage....the activists post a video of three sick cows being killed and ground up into ground beef and the stupid americans who have no ability to evaluate jump to the conclusion that cows are usually abused by the farmers. What? Over 71,000 a day go through the process, 3 in a year or so were handled not correctly, and we figure they all are??


I agree that I was mislead into thinking that the process of making foie gras was necessarily cruel, but I don't think that the hasty judgement that only 3 cows per year are mistreated is any more defensible.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:12 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
and that's why a smart consumer wants to know where their food comes from if at all possible
Lets not get crazy and make everything we put into our mouths a political/moral dilemma, I have better things to do with my limited time and energy, but I do try to buy my meat and dairy from farmers and corporations who seem to be trying to be responsible. Likewise I try not to go to restaurants that look dirty or where the employees act unprofessionally. I rarely know where the Foie gras in the restaurants come from, but for my freezer I use Hudson Valley.

Quote:
At most Foie Gras Farms in the world, ducks are housed in individual cages for the sake of efficiency. At Hudson Valley Foie Gras we believe in providing conditions which allow for social interaction, exercise, freedom of movement, and reduction of stress. For this reason, our ducks are maintained cage free

The essence of farming is caring for animals. At Hudson Valley Foie Gras, the premier producer of foie gras in America, this is especially true. Our many years of experience have taught us that respect for our people, environmental stewardship and the care of our animals are the keys to producing the quality products chefs and cooking aficionados expect from Hudson Valley Foie Gras.
Small numbers of specially bred ducks are individually hand fed to produce our unique, signature foie gras. Our trained caretakers spend as much as four times as much time caring for each animal as is the case in other foie gras farms. We believe our special care results in a wonderful product.


http://www.hudsonvalleyfoiegras.com/index.php/why-cage-free

I feel a little sheepish though, and kinda like Chef Bruce Naftaly of Le Gourmand seattle. When he was at Berkeley in the early 70's he started buying as much of his produce as he could from organic farms. There were few farms and even fewer chefs who used organic because the prices were 2-3 times normal plus it was a super big pain in the ass to get . I asked Bruce why he did it, thinking he would have some political new agey reason. He said he did it because he thought that stuff tasted better. Full Stop. He also says that over the last 20 years he has been very let down by doing it, as more and more people got into organics he increasingly came across organic stuff that was crap. He said that eventually he came to understand that it was all about the farmer not the other stuff, and it just happened that in the early days all the farmers who were doing organic were farmers that cared about what they where doing and how they did it. He said that he long ago stopped assuming that organic was better, he knew that he had to get to know the farmer.

I was buying duck livers from these people years ago because I loved the way they look and taste. It was not till later that I got the idea that they might be responsibly farming.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:13 pm
I suppose I should add that I like my ducks alive, my, as in our local canals.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:14 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
but I don't think that the hasty judgement that only 3 cows per year are mistreated is any more defensible.
that is not what I am saying, I am saying that if you show 2 minutes of tape with three animals being mistreated a lot of people will assume that most are. Which is ridiculous. I blame the education system.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Don't you already have your own foie gras thread to argue in?

I came here specifically to not have to deal with you.

Forget it.

I'm outta here.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well, the misinformation I've been exposed to came from various news media, not the educational system. If I were to criticize the educational system for this sort of thing, it would be for failing to teach students critical thinking skills so that they would know to avoid hasty generalizations, stereotyping, appeals to authority, etc, and be skeptical enough to demand sufficient evidence before reaching a conclusion (which should be tentative and open to change in the face of further evidence).
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:26 pm
@ehBeth,
No, wait, ehBeth, I did too. Don't leave.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2015 10:28 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
. If I were to criticize the educational system for this sort of thing, it would be for failing to teach students critical thinking skills so that they would know to avoid hasty generalizations, stereotyping, appeals to authority, etc, and be skeptical enough to demand sufficient evidence before reaching a conclusion (which should be tentative and open to change in the face of further evidence).
that is what I am saying. Education is teaching people how to learn, how to process information in order to get to learning, to get to understanding how the universe works. '

And we almost completely fail at it, even though the youth spend a ton of time in the system and we spend a ton of money on it.
0 Replies
 
 

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