Transgender murders-one a month

"The lawyers are trying to place all of the blame on Gwen, even though these young men that admitted on the witness stand that they murdered Gwen."

Yes - an adversarial legal system is full of such horrors - it is extremely disturbing to hear and read about - (believe me I know, having dealt with things like being in court when a young woman was accused of initiating sex with her abuser, hence lessening his responsibility - and having this accusation be allowed to be aired in all seriousness by the judge - complicating factor being that she was 2 years and 11 months old at the time of the abuse).

They do not justify further abuse, of anyone.

Deb,
I don't find any pleasure in what's in store for these kids. I merely quoted Sam. She said she'd just love to see the look on their faces, if approached that way. I know that she's angry about this happening to anyone, even Gwen Araujo, but would not really want further harm to anyone, even these kids. She is one of the strongest proponet of restorative justice I know.

I personally feel that they have thrown away their lives and ended another. US Prisons were initially built to "rehabilitate" felons. Nice theory, but damn poor results. Prisons only foster criminal behavior, inside and out. Unfortunately, here restorative justice is used mainly in cases of vandalism or theft of property.

Two years, eleven months old and a seductress already! I hope the judge told the defense attorney how ludicrous that was!! How low will a solicitor go? By the way, are you aware that many states call prostitutiong "soliciting"? After reading that story, I understand why.


The topics of justice and the penal system might be an interesting thread, if it hasn't been done. With so many from so many countries here, I think it could be interesting and enlightening.

" Unfortunately, here restorative justice is used mainly in cases of vandalism or theft of property."

We are beginning to use it for juveniles in offences against the person - not, as far as I know, for adults - except in special legal settings for Aboriginal people.

Is this a native American process?

I believe we mainly got it from New Zealand and Pacific indigenous cultures although I understand a version is there for Aboriginal people. This can involve practices like spearing which are very distasteful for Europeans to consider - well, most Europeans!

You are right - a thread would be interesting.

Deb,

Restorative Justice as practiced by many Native American Peoples covered all intraband issues, including what we would call murder. The "murderer" would have to provide food, clothing, shelter and protection to the family of a male victim. If the victim was female the murderer would have to either give the victims husband, or the family of an unmarried woman, one of his wives or daughters.
In instances of theft or property damage the property would be returned or replaced along with penalties required by the Council. Those additional penalties could be anything from loss of status or Eagle feathers to payment to the victim/s in the form of material goods or ponies.
this is a simplified version. The Council was the final authority, like bringing a case to the Supreme Court from the start.
The Council members were all appointed Chiefs and any Winkte members of the band. Please note that Chiefs were appointed by acclamation by the men, not as a political process. While the women did not openly participate in this they had an equal influence through their male family members. All Council members heard the case form all parties involved. The Canunpa (Sacred Pipe) and Sacred Talking Feathers (Eagle) provided insurance that all present spoke the truth. Each Chief would present their opinions followed by the Winkte, who had no vote. The Winkte's opinions and observations were highly valued as they imbodied both male and female perspectives. The final decision of the Council would be announced to the whole band and in some instances to the whole Tribe or Nation. The ultimate punishment was loss of all status, honors and banishment. This was reserved for those the Council believed to be unreformable or a threat to the whole community. This was in essence a death sentence as no one would welcome or help the condemned. One person alone and on foot had little chance of surviving on the prairie.
I hope this gives you some idea of the original "justice system" used by Native Americans. The perspective is strictly from the Plains Peoples. Other broad groups such as Woodland Peoples or Northwest Costal Peoples had some additional methods. These often included either ordeals or contests to decide guilt or innocence.

Sam

Yeah. All the time.

I was beginning to feel uncomfortable. Especially that time you chased me down the street with open arms screaming about your undying passion and all.

It was just a lil' odd.

Soooooooooooooo, Sam's being running around behind my back, eh? No more Miss Nicegirl here!! I'll tie her shoe laces together! Muwahahaha!

Craven,

I love you for the same reasons as Sam, but will only run fast enough from you for you to catch me. :wink:

Craven,

We had agreed that we would never mention that! :wink:

What I mean when I say, I love you" is that I would greet you with a big warm hug, a kiss on the cheek or perhaps on the mouth and real genuine happiness. Why, because you and many other a2k members have a rare combination of talents. There is the ability to think and reason, not just give emotional responses based on personal preferences and feelings. Then, as I have seen posted on several occasions, you and some other a2k members have the ability your to express your thoughts in a clear concise manner. Aristotle or Socrates, I do not recall which, stated that emotion and intellect must be kept in balance. If they are not either humanity or rationality are lost.
There are also some a2k members that I would greet with a traditional Lakota man's "limp fish" hand shake. No offense meant, just the way it is.
This and many other threads have a strong emotional component. Billie and I both believe that one human killing another human is wrong . Our feelings are stronger because the victim was trans, one of us.
Were all those involved intoxicated and suffering from impaired judgment, perhaps. Did Gwen place herself in a possibly dangerous situation, again perhaps. Only in nature does stupidity carry a automatic death sentence. Killing her because of perceived deception is a gross over-reaction.
It was totally acceptable with two of those men to have Gwen perform fellatio on them. Only after it was pointed out that Gwen was a genetic male did they become angry enough to kill. Would they have had the same reaction if Gwen had been through SRS, Sexual Reassignment Surgery? A small aside... I prepared German rabbit stew for my family. My ex, two step-children and I began to eat it. The children said it was really good and were enjoying the meal. Then my ex told them that they were eating rabbit. Both of them nearly puked on the spot. I said wait a minute, before you knew that you were eating rabbit you liked the stew, right? They agreed. Does it taste any different now that you know? They sad no it does not. Then what is the problem? There was none, and we finished the meal. I see a simular situation here. It would take a highly trained anatomist to differentiate between a male and a female mouth from the inside and they would not be right all of the time.
Sending the guilty to prison will never bring the dead back to life or remove the pain and anger caused by that death. They will be placed in a position of being vulnerable to other predacious humans. This only makes matters worse, hate, anger and violence compounded. There is a Buddhist saying , "anger met lust on the road and they begot violence."
Is the accused's story fact, or is it fiction to cover killing a "nasty fag"? Only six people know the truth, one is silenced forever, the other five may say what they will. We may never know the truth of what happened that night.

Sam

Wiyaka,

My flip flops do not have laces. Dingbat! You'll have to try something else. No coaching please.

Sam

Curses! Foiled again! Hmmmmmm, gotta think. Now what can I do about her? Can't short sheet her, with her at 5'4", it wouldn't do any good. Especially, since we sleep in the same bed and I'm 6'2"! I 'd starch her lingerie, but she doesn't wear any. I'd turn our pup Yamni loose in her shoes, since he thinks their tasty, but that's money from the budget. Hmmmmm, got it! I'll sew up the fly on her jeans, forcing her to wear.... skirts!

Wiyaka,

Are we getting way off topic here. (tap...tap...tap...)

Sam

Sorry.

Now, will you get me out of this metal formalwear? My speakers are starting to edge closer to me all the time.

Ok, come on over here and I'll unlock your iron undies. All better now?

Then please try and stick to the topic, sweetheart.

Sam

Okay! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that's better.<sighs with relief> Now, shall we play doctor again? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Tap...tap...tap...

Ok, ok. I get the idea. *Pout, pout*