The Obvious

@Walter Hinteler,

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They organisers of the PEGIDA-marches will take legal action against a German satyr magazine because they published a satyr about those marches.

That you even have laws that limit free speech is your fault, not mine.

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I don't hope similar will happen as in Paris!

Sorry Wally, the PEGIDA demonstrations are peaceful.

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@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

That you even have laws that limit free speech is your fault, not mine.

No, it's not about free speech, it's like in Paris: you can't make fun of some ...

coldjoint wrote:

Sorry Wally, the PEGIDA demonstrations are peaceful

You know the result of the murder inquiry already? (Breach of the public peace, bodily harm, obstructing a police officer in the course of his duty ... all this is of course peaceful acting.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

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You know the result of the murder inquiry already? (Breach of the public peace, bodily harm, obstructing a police officer in the course of his duty ... all this is of course peaceful acting.)

Is there a suspect? And we know it did not cause the Paris attack. What is your point Wally? Are you actually going to use one death to convict a whole group. That is very hypocritical of you.

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@coldjoint,

Under the slogan "Rights and security for refugees - in memory of Khaled," several thousands marched today in Dresden
This demonstration aimed not only to remember Khaled I., but also to show a sign of solidarity with asylum seekers and refugees, particularly in light of an apparent increase in xenophobic sentiment in recent months.

Dresden's Christian community will also hold a remembrance service for Khaled I. on Sunday at a Protestant as well as in a Catholic church in the neighborhood where the body was discovered. Similar events are also scheduled to be held in the eastern German cities of Leipzig, Potsdam and Berlin.

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particularly in light of an apparent increase in xenophobic sentiment in recent months.

Here is the scoop Wally. You characterize people that attend anti-Islam rallies as Nazis.

I am going to call those people at your march just plain scared or stupid. Most likely both. Or politicians, which is worse. And the immigrants are very comfortable in their victim role. There is a saying in America. "They seen you coming"

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German anti-Islam PEGIDA cancels rally over 'ISIS death threat'

- See more at: http://dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2015/Jan-18/284481-german-anti-islam-pegida-cancels-rally-over-isis-death-threat.ashx#sthash.tcVKyYeY.dpuf

Peaceful demonstrations deserve death threats? In Germany they do.

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It's hard to believe: Lutz Bachmann, the chief organizer of the PEGIDA marches, a man with a criminal record, a possible victim of Islamist terrorists? After weeks in which his so-called patriots - along with the help of what Bachmann has called the "lying media" - have managed to whip up hatred toward foreigners and cast a shadow on Germany?

This man is not worthy of becoming a martyr. And yet, astute observers say the terror threat is growing. We don't want to imagine what could have happened, had there been an attack.
[...]
After all, next time there will be even more people lured out onto the streets by the Pied Piper of Saxony. "Islamization has already begun," blustered Alexander Gauland, of the euroskeptic Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, who leads the self-proclaimed patriots in the German parliament. Also a Pied Piper, Gauland.

Authorities in Saxony have prevented a disaster - possibly. However, amid the deafening and ominous chatter about potential attackers, Salafists, Islamists, terrorist cells and other threats, Germany became a bit darker this weekend. The fact that there is no-one able to shine a light on the issues, not even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, says a lot about democracy in Germany 70 years after the end of the very dark time. Be there an Islamist threat or not.

"When it comes to mischief, it's not just those who are guilty who are responsible, but also those who do nothing to prevent it," wrote author and Dresden native Erich Kästner. And also: "The past must speak, and we must listen. Until that happens, we and it will not rest."
And that's how it is.

Source

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@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Peaceful demonstrations deserve death threats? In Germany they do.

Obviously you have the opinion that everyone, who gets them, deserves the death threads.

It was made very clear today in their press-conference (and yesterday in a talk-show) by the PEGIDA-spokeswoman and the 'head' of the organisation that they followed the ban of demonstrations in Dresden today, outspoken by the police - for the anti-demonstration as well.

While the press was called by them "lying press" until yesterday and no comments or interviews were given to reporters, today journalists were the "dear representatives of the media".

Aims of PEGIDA, as outspoken again today, are:
- a new immigration law, like in Canada or Switzerland,
- changing the Constitution with the new "right of integration and duty to integrate",
- a quick identification of Islamists,
- the possibility of fast and easy public referenda,
- no reduction of police personal,
- an immediate stop of warmongering against Russia.

Source: PEGIDA-press conference in Leipzig/Saxon State Agency for Civic Education, Monday, 19.01.2015, 11 am. (The above mentioned sic points were declared between 11.10 am and 11.16 am.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Those six points were the newly concreted former 19 points.
But "Sämtliche -gida-Ableger, die wir haben, müssen unser 19-Punkte-Programm beziehungsweise diese sechs Punkte unterzeichnen" - "All -gida offshoot are required to sign our 19-point program respectively these six points."

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@Walter Hinteler,

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It's hard to believe: Lutz Bachmann, the chief organizer of the PEGIDA marches, a man with a criminal record,

Is there no rehabilitation in Germany? Has he paid for his crime? Will you hold a criminal record against someone because he doesn't share your ideas?

Again, Wally you look very hypocritical

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@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Is there no rehabilitation in Germany? Has he paid for his crime? Will you hold a criminal record against someone because he doesn't share your ideas?

I can't remember that I have written that sentence, and my name really is Walter Hinteler and not Marko Langer.

There are several kinds of rehabilitation in Germany:
- medical rehabilitation (for instance in specialised clinics after an operation (we've got here medical doctors specialised in rehabilitation medicine),
- job/profession related rehabilitation,
- political rehabilitation (e.g. for the Nazi and SED victims, regulated in the Act to rehabilitate and compensate victims of unconstitutional criminal prosecutions in the area of accession)

Bachmann did normal, "usual" crimes. He has been in prison for and is still (if I remember correctly) out on suspended prison sentence.

I'm certain, his probation officer does his best to prevent him from doing a new crime.

I don't mind what criminal record someone has. But since I've worked as a probation officer, I do know that people really can change their life style.

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@Walter Hinteler,

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I can't remember that I have written that sentence,

If you use something as a source it is usually to enforce your point of view. How many other sources are you going to post you will not acknowledge?

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@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

If you use something as a source it is usually to enforce your point of view.

a) I sincerely doubt that you know, why I use a source for what, usually, infrequently, rarely, or seldom.
b) generally, any quotes are sourced,
c) I didn't declare my point of view about that comment but only posted it as linked quote

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I'm not in charge for actions of the Gouvernement de la République française.
But since the president of the FN, Jean-Marie Le Pen, said that the Charlie Hebdo massacre may have been the work of an "intelligence agency", working with the connivance of French authorities, the work of American or Israeli agents seeking to foment a civil war between Islam and the West - you really should support the non-invitation.

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@Walter Hinteler,

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American or Israeli agents seeking to foment a civil war between Islam and the West - you really should support the non-invitation.

Le Pen isn't perfect. I support every side being heard and she does represent people that see Islam as intolerant. Islam would be intolerant without Americans and without Israelis. And the two societies cannot co-exist, the intolerant can only win.

So this meeting will produce nothing but mores excuses and manufactured blame on anything but the real problem.

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@coldjoint,

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder, Président d'honneur and longtime leader of the FN, is a male. His daughter, Marion ("Marin") Le Pen, represents the FN as the actual leader (présidente exécutive).

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@Walter Hinteler,

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Jean-Marie Le Pen,

I know her history Wally. I am more interested in what she has said about Muslim immigration and her growing support. You may have convinced yourself about Islam, but a growing part of European society says you are wrong.

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The (Roman Catholic) bishop of Münster/Westphalia has taken away from a priest, who spoke at a PEGIDA demonstration and 'preached' there against refugees and foreigners, the right to preach in church, and to speak in public in the name of the Catholic Church. (Canon Law 746)

"The Christian message is not one of exclusion, of hatred and violence, but one of love and kindness. We are grateful for the many people, among them many Christians, who go on the streets and demonstrate for that. In Germany, we certainly don't face an Islamisation. As Christians it would be more than appropriate to help and be there for those, who seek refuge here." (Source: Press release)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

From a (today deleted) facebook post of Bachmann

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