How to get out of a church / organized religion

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Hi. I was a evangelical christian --baptist-- for all my life. I am 22 and I am graduating from University and I've been involved in the church and in my University christian activities because I really believed in the religion and I gave it all to it (I feel played by it right now, but I guess that is irrelevant to the post). Since last year I've started to question my faith to the point where it is impossible for me to believe in the baptist God anymore, and I'm starting to I find the baptist religion incoherent and exclusive. Anyhow, that is not the point of my post.

My question is: how to get out of a church and of a community --which is kind of closed-- where I feel entangled. I feel very bad about this situation. I still have friends and family among that community, and I still want to talk to them and to see them, I don't want to hurt anyone, to deceive anyone, but I feel like I can't believe in what they believe anymore and I want to go on my own way. I just feel bad with that situation, and with all the people that will talk in my back, about me, and about how bad of a person I am.

Anyways, so I was wondering, since there is many americans here, and that america is the stronghold of the baptists, and that this situation probably happened to many of you, or to many of your friends : Did that situation ever happened to any of you? How did you deal with it? How is it possible to move out of a community/church without breaking anything? Any tips? Also, it's not only about me: churches are pretty much communities built to keep you in, at least in Quebec, Canada, where I live-- any comment about that, any debate?

Thanks a lot for your responses, and if I made mistakes in my grammar, sorry, english is my second language.

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It's a bit unclear as to whether you can physically leave the community (I define 'community' as the city or town in which you live in this sense), Ion.

Is it possible for you to move (far, far away)?

Assuming you cannot do so, the ties that bind (sorry about the bad pun) are going to be more difficult to sever. People will be asking you why you weren't in church last Sunday, etc. That will force you to tell the truth -- uncomfortable -- or prevaricate -- undesirable.

It's best just to make a clean break if you can.

As a personal aside, I was raised in the Church of Christ -- a more conservative, stricter version of Southern Baptist, and worse yet, without the musical accompaniment to keep the congregation on key -- but it didn't take, either. So the advice I can give comes not from a experience of disagreement with Christianity but of disillusionment with how it is practiced.

I seem to fit the definition of agnostic. (My wife calls herself a Deist, which I have never really understood the definition of, either.) I tend to curse God much more often than praise him, and certainly more than I pray to him. But I have not been beyond asking for a little divine intervention on the occasional troublespot, either. Makes me kind of a hypocrite, I know.

Here comes my two cents:

Be true to the intellectual enlightment that has brought you to this crossroads. Some people will never get here (and I suspect you know several people who fit this description).

Keep seeking, and by this I mean keep posing the questions. You may find a quick study of the tenets of Zen Buddhism will help in the processing (I'm not one, but I like their take on things).

Don't be upset if you do not find an answer that satisfies you. Human beings have been asking these questions for thousands (and perhaps millions) of years, and if anyone had discovered the answer that worked for everyone, we'd all know it by now.

What you are experiencing is the conundrum of human existence, and everyone has to come to their own terms with it.

Don't fret over the roadmap; enjoy the ride.

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When I became a Nichiren Buddhist 23 years ago most of my family and friends eventually supported me. Your religious beliefs are up to you and not your friends or family. If you leave the church your true friends will support you. Those that abandon you cannot be called true friends.

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Thanks for your answer. Sorry I was unclear. For now, I'm in Montréal and I will have to stay where I am for a couple of years, I'm undertaking a part time masters in History (while looking for a job, I just graduated). So I won't physically leave the community.

Thanks also for your tips about looking and not being discouraged. Personally, I am a theist, maybe because of my upbriging I guess, but I'm all for looking and testing. Is there a official book (like the Bible is for christianity) for Buddhism, as you suggested me the Buddhist ideology? As for my road, I've read the Coran and, while I'm amazed by the arab world and by the Coran as a historical document, I find it even more oppressive to the mind than the Bible. I guess I need to check other things along my way. So, thanks for the response.

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Hi Ionesco. There are many Buddhists in Montral who would be happy to teach you the basic pracice and the philosophy. Here's a web site you may find of interest: www.sgi-usa.org. Not only is Buddhism the most logical philosophy I have ever found but the practice is based on "actual proof". Nothing has ever brough me such tremendous joy. Give it a try if you are so inclined.

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NickFun wrote:

Hi Ionesco. There are many Buddhists in Montral who would be happy to teach you the basic pracice and the philosophy. Here's a web site you may find of interest: www.sgi-usa.org. Not only is Buddhism the most logical philosophy I have ever found but the practice is based on "actual proof". Nothing has ever brough me such tremendous joy. Give it a try if you are so inclined.

Thanks for the site and the tip. Will check. A question: what attracted you towards Budhism?

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Ionesco- IMO, it takes many years of searching and learning for a person to develop a mature life view. If a person has been brought up in a narrowly focused religion, it becomes more difficult to throw off the constraints of what has been inculcated to the person as a child.

You are starting to grow by questioning. Many religions, and their adherents, do not take kindly to questioning, as questioning uncovers fallacies and inconsistencies.

Quote:

I feel very bad about this situation. I still have friends and family among that community, and I still want to talk to them and to see them, I don't want to hurt anyone, to deceive anyone, but I feel like I can't believe in what they believe anymore and I want to go on my own way. I just feel bad with that situation, and with all the people that will talk in my back, about me, and about how bad of a person I am.

At some point, you may have to make a choice. Many religions counter dissent with hostility, and threats (either direct or subtle) of rejection of the person who DARES to question their beliefs. You need to be prepared for that.

You do not have to make any excuses. If someone from the church asks why you no longer attend services, you don't need to go into long explanations about how you no longer believe in the church's teachings. That is behaving in a defensive way, and will only bring about more urging to return to the fold. A simple, "I don't go anymore", is sufficient. If you are pressed, you might want to change the subject, or even walk away.

As far as being thought "bad", remember this. Throughout your life, people will think many things about you. The important thing, is what YOU think of yourself.

You have started a long, exciting journey, which will determine the kind of person that you will be. There will be roadblocks in the way, but that does not matter. What matters, is that you be true to yourself.

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I find it unfortunate that something that is advertised as positive and helpful, can be so oppressive to the individual. The more I learn about organized religion, the more I compare it to a cult.

I think a slow distancing is best, if you can't physically move away. Or you could announce an extended absence for the sake of your studies.

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Ionesco wrote:

Personally, I am a theist, maybe because of my upbriging I guess, but I'm all for looking and testing. Is there a official book (like the Bible is for christianity) for Buddhism, as you suggested me the Buddhist ideology?

Nick's already been more helpful in this regard; I will suggest "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", by Robert M. Pirsig. It is hardly a religious tome, but it's a nice place to start. Sort of a book about life, feeling, caring, about who and what we are and the quality of our lives.

"The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are", by Alan Wilson Watts, an Episcopal minister who converted to Zen Buddhism, is another excellent read. It's very profound without being dense or imponderable. (As an aside, Watts acquired quite a following in the '60s and '70s after The Book was published, among them Alan Ginsberg. Several of us A2Kers were in San Francisco in April and we went to Ground Zero for the beat movement, the City Lights Bookstore in the Haight, where Ginsberg and Timothy Leary and Bob Dylan and Ron Kovic and others all gathered. A very karmic -- some would say cosmic -- experience.)

Ionesco wrote:

Thanks for your answer.

You're welcome. Happy trails.

What IS that in your avatar, by the way? It looks intriguing...

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L.R.R.Hood wrote:

I find it unfortunate that something that is advertised as positive and helpful, can be so oppressive to the individual. The more I learn about organized religion, the more I compare it to a cult.

I think a slow distancing is best, if you can't physically move away. Or you could announce an extended absence for the sake of your studies.

I agree with you. Organized religion is seen as positive, but it really screwed me up for many years, the more I think about it. I feel like I've been lyied to and played with, not a nice feeling if you ask me.

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PDiddie wrote:

Ionesco wrote:
Personally, I am a theist, maybe because of my upbriging I guess, but I'm all for looking and testing. Is there a official book (like the Bible is for christianity) for Buddhism, as you suggested me the Buddhist ideology?

Nick's already been more helpful in this regard; I will suggest "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", by Robert M. Pirsig. It is hardly a religious tome, but it's a nice place to start. Sort of a book about life, feeling, caring, about who and what we are and the quality of our lives.

"The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are", by Alan Wilson Watts, an Episcopal minister who converted to Zen Buddhism, is another excellent read. It's very profound without being dense or imponderable. (As an aside, Watts acquired quite a following in the '60s and '70s after The Book was published, among them Alan Ginsberg. Several of us A2Kers were in San Francisco in April and we went to Ground Zero for the beat movement, the City Lights Bookstore in the Haight, where Ginsberg and Timothy Leary and Bob Dylan and Ron Kovic and others all gathered. A very karmic -- some would say cosmic -- experience.)

Ionesco wrote:
Thanks for your answer.

You're welcome. Happy trails.

What IS that in your avatar, by the way? It looks intriguing...

My avatar... It's on the album cover of my favourite rap group, boot camp clik, who stick it up to all the stupid nelly, snoop dog, and puff daddy of this world. But, I took the avatar because of the lenses, which implies that I am looking, and looking, and looking, kind of like a scout in the army. And I will always keep on looking, perfecting my mind. I guess that is what my avatar means. And for my name, if you care to know, Ionesco: he's the writer of the play Rhinocéros, my favourite play and piece of writing. Ionesco is my favourite writer with André Breton and Loui Aragon... I hope I didn't freak you out all those french names... I'm a Quebecer, so my first language is french...

Ok, well I also want to thank those who responded, but I must admit that I needed the little encouragement to follow my path, the little tap in the back, because I feel pretty much alone and isolated (and stupid) as all my friends and family were/are christians, and they know that I question stuff (I'm a college student, I guess that's normal and that your supposed to stop to once you graduate, lol), but don't know that I went that far.

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I was raised southern baptist. I am now Wiccan. ( no explaination here. hehe )
And I remember it took me about 5 years to finally have the balls to just say F*ck it. What people think about me >family included< does not dictate who I am and how I think. We would LIKE to think that isnt true , but it is. My experience with chrisitanity has been awful. And the more I look at it the more sorry I feel for people who are so tangled into it the cant live thier own lives. Christianity ( in my opinion ) does not allow for personal thought and evaulation. You are to take things at face value because your pastor/bible/momma say so! B-S. Religious security begins with the person wo can examine thier beliefs from all points with out fear of repremand. Christianity doesnt support that. And if that is happening to you dont fight it and dont let people's opinion of you keep you down. YOU live YOUR life , YOU fell the reprocussions of YOUR decisions and only YOU face yourself in the mirror.
If christians were what they 'claimed to be' , reprocussions for your thoughts would not exist. So why may I ask if these people are clearly not behaving the way they should, does thier opinion count? Normally two-faced or two-sided hyprocritical people are shunned....avoided and constantly questioned. But if all these traits are hidden under the cloak of religion they are ok ????? I think not. A person who is secure in thier religion wouldnt question you and wouldnt repremand you. So if they are not secure with thier beliefs.. why ar you worried about what they feel about yours?
Yeah , thier behavior will hurt when you tell them the truth, yeah, some may not talk to you .. but wich is worse.. living a lie? or owning your own thoughts? If this is what it takes to either cement your beliefs about christianity and find your place there ... then you should be given that opportunity freely. If this is what it takes for you to find serenity in your life.. same thing should apply i think.
I HAVE to get off this soap box or I will never shut up. What you are doing IS GOING to hurt you and your family. Face that now and dont sugar coat it and you will be ok.

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shewolfnm wrote:

Yeah , thier behavior will hurt when you tell them the truth, yeah, some may not talk to you .. but wich is worse.. living a lie? or owning your own thoughts? If this is what it takes to either cement your beliefs about christianity and find your place there ... then you should be given that opportunity freely. If this is what it takes for you to find serenity in your life.. same thing should apply i think.
I HAVE to get off this soap box or I will never shut up. What you are doing IS GOING to hurt you and your family. Face that now and dont sugar coat it and you will be ok.

So you suggest I just tell everyone to shuve it up their butt? I mean wouldn't it be more mellow and easier to do it gradually. I'm trying to prepare people around me, especially my family, by gradually telling them that I don't believe in Paul, for example, or that I don't believe all the non-christians will not go to heaven, or that I don't think it's wrong to be a homosexual, while still attending church services with my family. I hope that after a couple of months they'll be sensibilized, and then I can move on. But, what do you mean if I don't say anything right now it will hurt me? Your thoughs are radical, but intringing.

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Hey Ionaesco, I became a Buddhist in 1981. It wasn't something I was actively seeking. I met a lady who introduced me to it. Despite my initial doubts the practice gave me tremendous joy and vitality. If you would like to learn more you can contact me: [email protected]

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Quote:

So you suggest I just tell everyone to shuve it up their butt?

I would never suggest that. IMO, I may think that a certain faith is a crock, but I respect the right of another person to hold that belief. I think that if you want people to know that you are serious, you need to treat the matter with utmost respect..........in both directions.

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lonesco, Let me share something I heard on our recent buddhist pilgrimage to Japan. One of the priest at a temple said, "Christians cannot become god, but buddhists can become buddha." That's the most profound statement I've ever heard of any religion. What it says to me is that buddhists work on themselves to become enlightened. Christians work on teaching others to become christians. Can you see the difference?

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Quote:
So you suggest I just tell everyone to shuve it up their butt?

I would never suggest that. IMO, I may think that a certain faith is a crock, but I respect the right of another person to hold that belief. I think that if you want people to know that you are serious, you need to treat the matter with utmost respect..........in both directions.

That's what I though too. I tend to respect people, and then it's also easier to be respected that way. But I think that he was saying it as a metaphore (or exageration)...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

lonesco, Let me share something I heard on our recent buddhist pilgrimage to Japan. One of the priest at a temple said, "Christians cannot become god, but buddhists can become buddha." That's the most profound statement I've ever heard of any religion. What it says to me is that buddhists work on themselves to become enlightened. Christians work on teaching others to become christians. Can you see the difference?

I will defenitively check on the budhist ideology though, you guys convinced me to take a look at it --not saying I'm a budhist or that i will be, but I will check!-- it's intriging and it looks interesting, although I don't know anything about it right now.

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What are you preparing them for??? A longer bullett wound? Do you really think that telling people over a course of 4 months will make it easier? If it will then you are a lucky person. Most people would take that time to "try to save you". If you have all your ducks in a row and are positive that you want to tell everyone EVERYTHING you think.....do it. Procrastination only makes it harder to heal I think. But this isnt an easy decision. just that you are willing to do this is amazing. I truly wish you the best!

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BTW, I'm not a buddhist, but my wife is. I'm a rather happy atheist. Wink

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How to get out of a church / organized religion

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