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Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam !

 
 
Ahmad
 
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 06:37 am
Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam: Welt

By Khaled Schmitt, IOL Correspondent

BERLIN, May 31 (IslamOnline.net) - A German paper reported that the Vatican has been pumping huge amounts of funds into a very influential institution of the Catholic Church to halt the spread of Islam across the world.

In a report headlined "A million against Muhammad" Welt am Sonntag said Sunday, May 30, that huge amounts of money will be allotted to the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, a reportedly secret organization.

The report, prepared by Andreas Englisch, said the organization is now mainly concerned with stemming the rising reversion to Islam by tarnishing the image of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added.

The paper said the organization is getting a wide support from world governments and decision-makers to help it further promote Catholicism, proselytization and carry out statistics and comparison studies on the spread of Islam and Christianity in the world.

This marks a change of perception towards the group, which had been ignored, with Foreign Ministers declining to meet its representatives since its establishment by Pope Pius VI in 1966-1572, it added.

The pope had wanted to use the congregation for spreading Catholicism and proselytize other peoples in new methods, the paper said.

Merciless

The German newspaper said that the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples depend on "merciless" administrative methods for its work, the same the publication likened to those used by army soldiers.

It cited the congregation's prefect Crescenzio Sepe calling the members of the organization as "my soldiers".

The word was not uttered randomly, but rather with a significance of the work of the organization, the paper said, noting that the congregation directly supervises 1,081 dioceses secretly working in countries that ban Catholic activities.

The publication named Saudi Arabia, Yemen, China, Vietnam and Cambodia as some of these countries, saying that 40 per cent of Christians support the organization's activities across the world.

It said that 85,000 bishops and priests and 450,000 administrative workers, all have helped prepare 65,000 priests in 280 courses made over last years.

Serving this huge number of staffers is "another army" comprising one million ordinary people, with each earning 30 dollars as a basic monthly pay in return for moving across towns and villages for proselytizing the poor and marginalized, the paper averred.

The organization has also a large infrastructure, including 42,000 schools, 1,600 hospitals, 6,000 first-aid medical centers and 780 others for treating cases inflicted with hepatitis, and 12,000 offices for helping the poor and needy, the paper said.

Qatar Inauguration

Welt am Sonntag gave an extensive account of the organization's schools in Asia and Africa, ways which the paper said are the best for proselytizing and spreading Catholicism.

The paper said that Cardinal Sepe inaugurated one of these schools last week in Doha, Qatar, with 4,000 students a third of whom are Christians.

Sepe, who staged the celebration of John Paul's 50th anniversary as a priest in 1996, then said that the school is mainly introducing to students a high-level education allowing them to be open minded and unaffected by the stigma on Christianity.

Unlike the Doha school, where forms of proselytizing are avoided in line with the Arab Gulf country's laws, other schools are built in Asian countries - especially India - clearly to turn pupils into Christians.

A lot of funds is given for the construction of these schools, but the money is deemed well-invested to pay off in ending the spread of Islam, said the paper.

The organization has a budget of 500 million dollars annually, mainly earmarked for proselytizing and stemming the conversion to Islam, the paper concluded.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-05/31/article09.shtml

The article in its original German:

http://www.wams.de/data/2004/05/30/284942.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,478 • Replies: 30
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:55 am
This sounds serious.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:06 pm
What is the big deal about this?

A worldwide exchange of ideas is a good thing. This means that organizations of any faith or viewpoint should be able to market their ideas. The catholic church should present its case the best it can. Several years ago I was proselytized by a muslim student organization on the Northeastern campus. I didn't have a problem with that.

There are no real soldiers here. Perhaps this is not the best way to spend money, but paying clergy to proselytize is part of the role of any religious organization.

Nothing in this article is worth a second thought.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:22 pm
I find people wanting to proselytize me pretty annoying actually.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:31 pm
OK.

But would you want to live in a society where they couldn't?
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:42 pm
It depends... I'll give you some examples:

I'm walking downtown and someone is preaching there. He says to me whether I want to talk with him about Jesus. I say 'No thanks'. He respects that.

I'm chatting on the Internet (not here). I'm talking with a Muslim. He says Islam is the solution. I say 'I don't want to talk about it, I'm a non-religious Christian and I'm happy with that.' He doesn't accept that and says I'll burn in hell if I don't become a Muslim.

The doorbell rings. I open the door. There are two old ladies standing in front of me. They are Jehovah's Witnesses. I say I am not interested in Jehovah's Witnesses. One of them sticks her foot between the door and the wall, so I can't close the door. Only after I have excepted the leaflet and have "promised" to them I'll read it (and they promise to me they will check it) they leave.

The first example is OK to me. The other two not. That's why I find some people who want to proselytize me pretty annoying, even sometimes scary. I'll admit I made the mistake that I should have said "I find some people wanting to proselytize me pretty annoying actually".

My apologies for that.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:59 pm
I think that the first and second of your examples must be accepted by any free society.

In your third example, the problem is not that the people in your example are proselytizing. They problem is that they are violating your privacy and they are on your property. I would have a problem with anyone who acted this way-- whether they were selling me a vacuum or asking for a date. The fact that they are religious in this example is irrelevent.

Freedom of expression is one of the most important things in society. A society can not afford to allow one viewpoint to be expressed while preventing another. A religious viewpoint is no less important than politics or selling soft drinks.

I should be permitted to present my opinion as forcefully as I feel is necessary as long as I don't violate any other legitimate right.

I don't think you can insist on a right to not be annoyed. Being annoyed is part of living in any society. If people with funny accents really annoy me, that is my problem.

Of course, you have the right to kick me off your property, or to ignore my posts. That is, if you are willing to take the risk of burning in Hell.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 01:09 pm
Hmmm...sounds reasonable.
0 Replies
 
Ahmad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 01:26 am
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
This sounds serious.


Very serious indeed, it annoys the hell out of me, but we will face those people by logic, reason and wisdom, bring on the bible and the quran and let us sit for a chat ! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Ahmad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 01:27 am
ebrown_p wrote:
What is the big deal about this?

A worldwide exchange of ideas is a good thing. This means that organizations of any faith or viewpoint should be able to market their ideas. The catholic church should present its case the best it can. Several years ago I was proselytized by a muslim student organization on the Northeastern campus. I didn't have a problem with that.

There are no real soldiers here. Perhaps this is not the best way to spend money, but paying clergy to proselytize is part of the role of any religious organization.

Nothing in this article is worth a second thought.


If someone is trying to change your faith, it is an indirect insult to you and to your choice of your faith.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 07:19 am
Ahmad, maybe you are right and it is an insult. But how to you propose to prevent this. Do you think you can stop people from insulting you in a free society?

Freedom of expression is very important in a free society. People have the right to try to convince me to worship their God, vote for their candidate, support their cause or drink their soda.

A free exchange of ideas has great benefits. In such a society the ideas with merit will catch on, and the ideas with problems will be discussed in public.

I will point out that most religions have been built with proselytism. Islam started out as a small group of people with a very powerful set of ideas. It now has millions of followers in many countries. In the beginning Islam was spread through both trade and war. Islam has always proselytized and is still proselytizing (as I noted) and must if it is to remain a vibrant and modern religion.

People I know think I am voting for the wrong candidate, supporting the wrong causes and worshiping the wrong God. It is impossible for them to express their ideas without insulting me.


Each person should be allowed to express their ideas, whatever they are AND to try to convince people that their ideas are right. I have the responsibility to decide which ideas have merits.

Finally, look at your own signature. Your declaration of faith will be considered "insulting" by certain people. I would react very strongly if anyone insisted you change it.

Likewise I believe the Catholic church is wrong on many issues. I will react very strongly if anyone insists they stop expressing their ideas.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 09:08 am
Re: Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam !
Khaled Schmitt wrote:
In a report headlined "A million against Muhammad" Welt am Sonntag said Sunday, May 30, that huge amounts of money will be allotted to the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, a reportedly secret organization.

A better translation would be "Millions against Mohammed." And the Congregation isn't a "reportedly secret organization" -- clearly, if it's secret, it isn't doing a very good job of maintaining its secrecy.

Khaled Schmitt wrote:
The report, prepared by Andreas Englisch, said the organization is now mainly concerned with stemming the rising reversion to Islam by tarnishing the image of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

That is an out-and-out falsehood. The article says no such thing.

Khaled Schmitt wrote:
The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added.

Another falsehood. The Congregation is not directed to study the relation between Islam and Christianity -- that's a rather comical mis-translation.

Khaled Schmitt wrote:
Merciless

The German newspaper said that the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples depend on "merciless" administrative methods for its work, the same the publication likened to those used by army soldiers.

I see no mention of a "merciless" (erbarmunglos) anything in the article.

Khaled Schmitt wrote:
The publication named Saudi Arabia, Yemen, China, Vietnam and Cambodia as some of these countries, saying that 40 per cent of Christians support the organization's activities across the world.

Another comical mis-translation. The article states: "Die Kongregation für die Evangelisierung der Völker ist allein zuständig für 40 Prozent der christlichen Welt." Translation: "The Congregation for Evangelisation of the People alone is responsible for 40 percent of the Christian world." In other words, the Congregation, in effect, acts as the "diocese" for 40 percent of the world.

Khaled Schmitt wrote:
The organization has a budget of 500 million dollars annually, mainly earmarked for proselytizing and stemming the conversion to Islam, the paper concluded.

As far as I can tell, this is wrong. The only 500 million dollar figure mentioned in the article refers to the annual amount of expenditures, not to the organization's budget (which could, presumably, be much higher). And there is no mention of earmarking any of the funds for "stemming the conversion to Islam."
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 12:21 pm
That's why I got a D for German...
0 Replies
 
Ibn kumuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 05:52 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
That's why I got a D for German...


Awww! German wasn't that bad Sad

--Ibn
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2004 06:50 am
Quote:
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
That's why I got a D for German...


Awww! German wasn't that bad

--Ibn


Well actually I got a B for German, but this was the only excuse I could think off :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ibn kumuna
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2004 08:57 pm
Lol, cool! Smile

--Ibn
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 12:52 am
Re: Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam !
Ahmad wrote:


...The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added. ...


I had the impression that AlQuaeda was an international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths. Am I missing something??
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 08:57 am
Re: Funding Stepped Up To Curb Spread Of Islam !
swolf wrote:
Ahmad wrote:


...The Rome-based organization, ostensibly directed to study the relation between Islam and Christianity, is the only international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths, it added. ...


I had the impression that AlQuaeda was an international body working for fueling tension between followers of the two faiths. Am I missing something??

The Welt am Sonntag article states: "Die Kongregation ist die einzige Institution der Welt, die den Konflikt zwischen der christlichen und der muslimischen Religion aktiv austrägt." I've had some trouble with the verb "austragen," but at least one online dictionary translates it as "deals with" (and so it would be a synonym of "behandeln"). As such, the sentence would read: "The Congregation is the only institution in the world that actively deals with the conflict between the christian and muslim religions."

Now, "deals with" is far different from "fuels tensions." In the context of the Welt am Sonntag article, it is clear that the Congregation is actively seeking to extend the reach of the Catholic church, but the article that Ahmad cited has, I think, deliberately misrepresented and distorted the statement made by the original author.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 12:22 pm
Well, although I am not German, "austragen" is very similar to the Dutch "uitdragen"; in that case, the best translation in this context would be "propagate".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 01:11 pm
"Konflikt austragen" would be "to run-in a conflict" ... or -as joefromchicago already correctly wrote- "to deal with a conflict".

'uitdragen' should be the same as 'austragen', btw, Rick - which can be done with newspapers as well as with arguments :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

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