8
   

German And EU Immigration

 
 
FredWen
 
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:58 am
Hi, Ladies And Gentleman: Does anyone know why Angela Merkel is so adamant about Britain's allowing "unlimited immigration"? Germany has immigration problems as well. Why is she so "pro-immigrant"? I'm pretty sure the majority of Germans are not "pro-immigrant". Thanks!
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:16 am
@FredWen,
Germany actually does have immigration problems - it's rarely allowed here.

I don't know if "the majority of Germans are not "pro-immigrant"", but since you are pretty sure, you must have better sources.

But perhaps you are referring to the free movement of EU-citizens?
That has nothing at all to do with immigration but is a fundamental principle of the EU.And one of the rights for every EU-citizen. (Besides the some ten thousands of British soldiers and their families, about 120.000 UK-citizens live in Germany. [And 1.3 million in Spain.])
FredWen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks for your reply, Walter. It's often difficult to get an accurate information through the media, and "free movement of EU citizens" might have been exactly what Chancellor Merkel meant. It sounded to me like she was demanding that England absorb an ever-growing amount of third-world Einwanderern that is putting too much stress on their economy and healthcare system. But maybe that was just media bias.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:34 am
note
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 11:57 am
@FredWen,
FredWen wrote:
It sounded to me like she was demanding that England absorb an ever-growing amount of third-world Einwanderern that is putting too much stress on their economy and healthcare system. But maybe that was just media bias.
Really? I've reading English newspapers every day - never read something similar - even if they didn't name it "third world", Merkel has nothing to do with any immigration to the UK. And, again, what has reportedly been said by the German government was EU-related.
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 12:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You're correct, Walter, it was only about freedom of movement within the EU, for EU nationals.
Once again, Cameron is holding the binoculars the wrong way round and suffering from political premature ejaculation as he does so.
This is about benefit tourism, and that is the problem, if it is a problem, that concerned countries should be trying to resolve.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 12:49 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
This is about benefit tourism, and that is the problem, if it is a problem, that concerned countries should be trying to resolve.
Benefit tourism ... I remember that many citizens from Commonwealth countries liked to travel to the UK just because of the better hospitals and doctors compared to their home countries. People were proud about it ... decades ago.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 12:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
And so they should have been. And it was FREE!

The NHS is definitely something to be proud of.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 01:30 pm
@Lordyaswas,
I like it that our system gives patients a lot of choice: you are not restricted to the nearest general practitioner in your postcode but can sign up with any GP you like. GPs also have less of a gatekeeper function: if you know you have a back problem, you can go straight to see an osteopath.
And an "A&E" is just for life threatening emergencies - if you need a doctor at night or an weekends, you just go to the local "out of hours practise". Or call the doctor for a home visit.

But it is not free here: we have to pay the sickness fund we are a member of (can select between 200 different ones). The premium is calculated according to your income: half of it is paid by you, the other half by the employer. (On the other hand: we don't pay for it by a centrally collected tax like in the UK.)
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 01:49 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Just out of interest, what type of cover do you get if you pay nothing into any sort of scheme, either because of poverty, bankruptcy or sheer unwillingness to part with your money?
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 05:11 am
@FredWen,
In Denmark any EU citzens or other citizen has to work and pay taxes two years before they can get child support for their children living in the homeland of the worker.
EU now wants to change that so childsupport will be payed from day 1. That means childsupport to about 13 000 Polish children thousands of other EU children including Germany and GB.
Copenhagen has forbidden begging and helping beggars is now criminal,if the beggar does not have a Danish CPnumber(which does not mean you have to be a Dane). It is not just me putting some money in a cup, but churches who feed the homeless and open up for the night.
Sweden has now many beggers, especially from Bulgaria and Rumania.
They sit outside most supermarkets-not just in the inner cities.
How can they afford to get to Sweden? How can they afford to live in Sweden and send money back home? Getting to the supermarkets in the countryside costs money. Using your mobilphone is not cheap.

Instead of the easy way out and tellling about the wonderful open borders EU should put pressure on helping the poor in the poor EU countries and make life better for the people there.
You take away the dignity of a person when s/he has to beg.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 07:35 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
EU now wants to change that so childsupport will be payed from day 1. That means childsupport to about 13 000 Polish children thousands of other EU children including Germany and GB.
From where do you get "EU now wants to change ..."?
Since 1971 any EU-citizen gets all the social benefits in and from that country where she/he pays taxes.
While you get child support in Germany from day one onwards - even, if you don't pay taxes.
In Denmark, you get child support (Børne- og ungeydelse) only, if you (and the child) lives in Denmark and you pay taxes.

(There are certain -legal!- tricks, so that UK-soldiers get British child support, the mother of their child additionally German Kindergeld.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 07:36 am
@saab,
saab wrote:
You take away the dignity of a person when s/he has to beg.
Getting legal benefits isn't begging at all.
FredWen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 08:58 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Hi Walter. Let me clarify: I believe what you have read in the English newspapers concerning the free movement of EU citizens. Again, I'm in America. The article I read was from an American news source. I am gettting a continuing education on how the American media skews and distorts, not just our domestic news, but also international news. They do the same with the pictures: they take pictures of politicians at unfortunate moments to make it seem that they're more hostile to each other than they probably are. Again, our American media does this to get people to click on the link or news article. Frage: sind Sie aus Deutschland? Ihre English ist ziemlich gut.
FredWen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 09:01 am
@Lordyaswas,
Hi Lordyaswas,
Could you clarify what you meant by "Cameron holding the binoculars the wrong way around and the political premature ejaculation thing". Is he against tourism?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 09:21 am
@FredWen,
FredWen wrote:
Frage: sind Sie aus Deutschland? Ihre English ist ziemlich gut.
Yes. And thanks for the compliment.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 09:52 am
@FredWen,
FredWen wrote:

Hi Lordyaswas,
Could you clarify what you meant by "Cameron holding the binoculars the wrong way around and the political premature ejaculation thing". Is he against tourism?


No, he's not against tourism. Tourism and benefit tourism are two completely different things.

As far as the binocular analogy is concerned, Cameron has a habit of looking at problems completely the wrong way round and shouting loudly about it as he does so, so that everyone can see that he is being a naive and impulsive idiot.

Maybe it's not him. Maybe it's the advisors around him who are the idiots, who knows?

Anyway, all that happens is that people like Merkel gently pat him on the head and send him back to the classroom so that he can study the problem in more depth, in the hope that he can properly work out what is wrong and do something realistic and within the existing rules to help solve the situation.

He is moaning about people coming here to the UK with the main purpose of obtaining more State benefits than they would get in their home country.

What he needs to do first is to see if this is actually the case, overall, or is it as Walter implies more a case of our own Brits abroad in the EU getting foreign benefits to equal out what we are paying those EU "foreigners" living here.
It may be the case that the problem doesn't exist at all, and therefore he should be presenting that case to the British people rather than jumping on the UKIP style bandwagon.

He has been played for a fool, yet again, by not only his opponents but by his so called advisors.

The man is an idiot.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:13 am
@Lordyaswas,
I agree.

But certainly there might be some folks who just want to go to the UK (or any other country) for having a better life than at home.
Or they move, because they don't like the weather in their home country.
Or because they see better chances for their future life.
Or they study at an university.

And a few just might want to get social benefits.

A lot of data: EU citizenship - statistics on cross-border activities


Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Absolutely, and all power to them.

Anyone who wants to work and do the best they can for their family should have no restriction or at least as little restriction as possible within the countries of the EU.
My bruv went down to France as a penniless just qualified electrician back in 1981, and has since built a successful business over there. He pays gawd knows how much tax and other government charges each year, employs three French sparks and a young French apprentice, and has made himself a good life there.
Meanwhile, I've just had a new gas boiler fitted here by a German plumber who married an English girl back in the 80's and has lived here since the early 90's. He pays tax here and has a couple of English guys working for him.
Anyone who pays their way and is willing to work deserves to prosper if they possibly can.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Gettinglegal benefits is not begging and I never even thought it would be - so you twisted what I said.

EU wants to change...I have from a Danish paper - Jyllands Posten
Now citizens from other EU-countries get 25% childsupport efter having lived and worked in Denmark for6 months. After one year they get 50% when they have worked and payed taxes in Denmark. After two years they get the same benefits as the Danes.
This goes for workers with children in another EU country than Denmark
 

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